In the interest of National Security

[AlmostEligible]

But they aren’t irrelevant to NATCA. The unions job is to fight for and secure better pay and benefits, and the union has effectively said Fuck you to any member who did not buy a house before around 2018.

This contract has not kept up, many other labor groups have kept up. That’s the angst.

People understand Private sector v public sector won’t match. What people are struggling with is this attitude from NATCA that because Trump sucks and wants to take everything away, we should be happy with 1.6% and nothing more for the now 13 years of this awful contract the current president extended, with no input from members, after saying he wouldn’t do exactly that during the election.

I agree that Trump sucks. I didn’t vote for him, I don’t like the guy. At some point, the union has to step up and take care of their workers. Right now, it feels like they care solely about keeping official time, because most of the scammers on these A114 at home details are living comfortably in their house they bought in 2008-2013, when our pay was comfortably upper middle class, even in HCOL areas like ZOA. The pay is straight garbage, and that should be a LABOR UNIONs number 1 priority to fix.

I completely agree that our pay hasn't kept up with inflation. But that hyper inflation we saw since COVID19 was extremely unusual and unexpected and it's hard for me to blame NATCA for not keeping up with that part. At 1st I didn't agree with extending the contract, I was the guy at my facility talking the most about how bad it was. But after seeing how trump and musk are terrorizing the government workforce I can understand now why NATCA did it. It would of been much worse than the white book had we tried to negotiate with them, the evidence of that is everywhere.

 

[CreepyPineapple]

Well the people you are comparing yourself to (which was the point of your post) bought homes 5+ years ago when things were better. My point is that's irrelevant to NATCA. If prices and rates didn't just go up like crazy in a never seen before way most people that currently can't, actually would be able to buy something reasonable with a good rate. It's the markets ridiculous jump on prices and rates fault, not NATCA. And buying points is extremely expensive just for a fraction of a point. Not really a games changer comparing yourself to someone with a 2% rate when current rates are around 6.5%. But I guess you can argue that NATCA could make it easier for you to now pay an unreasonable price with a bad interest rate. Now that is true lol. But maybe the market will crash at the same time we get a big pay raise. Who knows

I was the one who made the point. It was more so to show that people who have been where they want to be for 5+ years are likely living comfortably with an affordable mortgage and their salary might be enough for them to live. And I think some of those people might not be able to relate to others that don’t have those luxuries.

I would argue that home prices and interest rates should absolutely be relevant to NATCA because that’s a bargaining chip if we ever do negotiate pay. We’ll have had two chances to go to the negotiating table since home prices and inflation have jumped significantly and we’ll have passed up both with extensions. To be fair, the first extension will have happened right before the boom really started, but I think it is the one extension that is more widely agreed upon as the wrong move.

 

[GroundClutter]

Update 1210 with zero mention from our leadership.

Hey their normal limp wrist response is up!

Two paragraphs.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Not sure what you mean, but I read #6 as those getting any hours of union time per pay period will lose them and return to the job they were hired to do for 80 hours per pay period. Not sure if that applies to Article 114 time, though; however, if they terminate the CBA... then A114 and the time logically follows.

That's my line of thought

 

[+TSRA]

A bunch of “tough” Controllers too scared of their boss to negotiate a 10+ year old contract. No wonder we’ve been steamed rolled. Remember that next time you’re drunk off your ass bragging to some chick trying to get laid or thinking you’re a bad ass for vectoring like a tortilla machine spitting out tortillas.

Besides, the Union had opportunity to negotiate the contract LONG before this Admin. was in place.

 

[Soul_Controller]

The administration is literally telling you people they aren't going to negotiate with unions.

 

[32andBelow]

The administration is literally telling you people they aren't going to negotiate with unions.

Yah they are going to offer us a raise when they split the ATO to quell any pushback.

 

[njeezy08]

Yah they are going to offer us a raise when they split the ATO to quell any pushback.

I honestly do wonder how big/small of a raise it would have to be, to get limited pushback from controllers when they split the ATO

 

[Nothanks]

I honestly do wonder how big/small of a raise it would have to be, to get limited pushback from controllers when they split the ATO

It won’t matter they don’t want to pay you more. They don’t even want you in the same room as them asking about it anymore.

 

[97on33off]

Yah they are going to offer us a raise when they split the ATO to quell any pushback.

Im very scared and interested how they are going to honor our FERS retirement. They pull that from under us its gonna have some serious consequences. Thats the only real power we have left

 

[CoffeeIV]

A bunch of “tough” Controllers too scared of their boss to negotiate a 10+ year old contract. No wonder we’ve been steamed rolled. Remember that next time you’re drunk off your ass bragging to some chick trying to get laid or thinking you’re a bad ass for vectoring like a tortilla machine spitting out tortillas.

Besides, the Union had opportunity to negotiate the contract LONG before this Admin. was in place.

When could we have negotiated that wouldn't have been under Trump without a shadow of a doubt in the past 10 years. I'll wait since you don't understand contract negotiations or the very low likelihood of the incumbent losing a presidential election.

 

[32andBelow]

It won’t matter they don’t want to pay you more. They don’t even want you in the same room as them asking about it anymore.

They don’t give a shit about spending money. They will spend money in areas they want to look good to the public. ATC is one of those areas. They have zero plans on paying down any debt

 

[Nothanks]

They don’t give a shit about spending money. They will spend money in areas they want to look good to the public. ATC is one of those areas. They have zero plans on paying down any debt

time will tell

 

[CoffeeIV]

They don’t give a shit about spending money. They will spend money in areas they want to look good to the public. ATC is one of those areas. They have zero plans on paying down any debt

They'll pay for equipment because well connected people get paid with all the contracts. That's why Elon was talking about talking over for Verizon (which that nonsense has died off already it seems).

Controllers aren't getting some magical pay raise under this administration and if we do it's going to be at the cost of the social security stipend and retirement age which will cost you more in the long run.. all of you need to prepare for a 0% January raise. But most of you will blame NATCA for that too.

 

[GulfCharlie]

If the contract gets thrown out then what exactly do you people think will be "negotiated."

What do you mean "you people?"

 

[ATCJoe85]

Im very scared and interested how they are going to honor our FERS retirement. They pull that from under us its gonna have some serious consequences. Thats the only real power we have left

Trump, Musk, and Big Balls could literally steal the money from us. Then when a judge takes it back for us, they will then gaslight their supporters into thinking the judge is a liberal activist who needs to be impeached.

That's the position we're in thanks to dipshits around the country.

 

[ace super#1]

At least in negotiations we have a chance (however small) at getting something to better ourselves. Now it’s just being forced on us. Which one is better? I’d take a chance for something better any time since we are getting the same results regardless.

You were willing to risk every you have for everything you don’t have?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I completely agree that our pay hasn't kept up with inflation. But that hyper inflation we saw since COVID19 was extremely unusual and unexpected and it's hard for me to blame NATCA for not keeping up with that part. At 1st I didn't agree with extending the contract, I was the guy at my facility talking the most about how bad it was. But after seeing how trump and musk are terrorizing the government workforce I can understand now why NATCA did it. It would have been much worse than the white book had we tried to negotiate with them, the evidence of that is everywhere.

How many boosters did you get?

 

[32andBelow]

They'll pay for equipment because well connected people get paid with all the contracts. That's why Elon was talking about talking over for Verizon (which that nonsense has died off already it seems).

Controllers aren't getting some magical pay raise under this administration and if we do it's going to be at the cost of the social security stipend and retirement age which will cost you more in the long run.. all of you need to prepare for a 0% January raise. But most of you will blame NATCA for that too.

No we blame NATCA for being totally incompetent. Not the pay raise from the president.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Nonsense. They would have wiped their ass with the white book, changed the date and handed it to us.

That’s not how that works. We have binding arbitration now, which means the best argument at the table (including precedents from the past) wins. These “we could be getting white book again” arguments are stupid af.