January 2020 NEST Panel

[Eligible Iwin]

Then at that point have the training team terminate your training. You don’t have to be at 100% of hours. Unless you fast track to your old facility you are just hurting yourself by resigning, you go to the end of the list to select facilities.

You must be too young to have been employed, or care, during the White Book. During the white book manglement was terminating employment under the 365 day probationary period in our facility for reasons that had nothing to do with aptitude or likelihood of success. The kids back then had a choice to "withdraw" from training and retain the ability to reapply in a year or chance that they would never get a job back in the agency again. Withdrawing is not always so cut and dry. Sometimes it is tactical.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

You must be too young to have been employed, or care, during the White Book. During the white book manglement was terminating employment under the 365 day probationary period in our facility for reasons that had nothing to do with aptitude or likelihood of success. The kids back then had a choice to "withdraw" from training and retain the ability to reapply in a year or chance that they would never get a job back in the agency again. Withdrawing is not always so cut and dry. Sometimes it is tactical.

I understand everything you said bro and your right if this was 2007 rules, but the processes and the way it’s handled changed dramatically now. Now there is no advantage to ever withdrawing rather that have your training terminated unless you are a CPCIT and you know there is still a opening at your old facility, and you request to and want to go back there as soon as possible.

 

[GolfKilo]

Anyone go through the process of washing out at a level 12 center, then taking a position in Flight Data (2154), and then ERR to a tower? I washed last December with all of my D-side certifications, but no R-sides. With advice from my NATCA president, I took a FD position to avoid the NEST and have more control over where I go. Just wanted to see if anyone has gone through a similar process....Thanks.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Anyone go through the process of washing out at a level 12 center, then taking a position in Flight Data (2154), and then ERR to a tower? I washed last December with all of my D-side certifications, but no R-sides. With advice from my NATCA president, I took a FD position to avoid the NEST and have more control over where I go. Just wanted to see if anyone has gone through a similar process....Thanks.

As far as I am aware FD is a different job code (as you posted) therefore you cannot just ERR. You would have to reapply as a 2152.

 

[Shikaka]

Anyone go through the process of washing out at a level 12 center, then taking a position in Flight Data (2154), and then ERR to a tower? I washed last December with all of my D-side certifications, but no R-sides. With advice from my NATCA president, I took a FD position to avoid the NEST and have more control over where I go. Just wanted to see if anyone has gone through a similar process....Thanks.

I know a guy who went FD, you're out man honestly.

 

[Move78]

Anyone go through the process of washing out at a level 12 center, then taking a position in Flight Data (2154), and then ERR to a tower? I washed last December with all of my D-side certifications, but no R-sides. With advice from my NATCA president, I took a FD position to avoid the NEST and have more control over where I go. Just wanted to see if anyone has gone through a similar process....Thanks.

You can apply to another 2154 vacancy and not be suffocated by the National Release Policy. But there is no instrument for ERR from 2154 to 2152.

 

[GolfKilo]

You can apply to another 2154 vacancy and not be suffocated by the National Release Policy. But there is no instrument for ERR from 2154 to 2152.

Thank you for the responses, all!

What is the "National Release Policy"? I've never heard of that.

Interesting you all say that I can't get back in unless I do a prior experience bid. My NATCA president is the one who told me to take the FD position because I can ERR to a facility of my choice. I wonder why he would tell me that if it wasn't the case?

 

[IllIlIllIllIllIIl]

Thank you for the responses, all!

What is the "National Release Policy"? I've never heard of that.

Interesting you all say that I can't get back in unless I do a prior experience bid. My NATCA president is the one who told me to take the FD position because I can ERR to a facility of my choice. I wonder why he would tell me that if it wasn't the case?

He might of ment another fac for FD. But no go on 2152 ERR.

 

[GolfKilo]

He might of ment another fac for FD. But no go on 2152 ERR.

I see... I had to ERR to get into FD, so it's weird that you can go from 2152 to 2154, but not the other way around.

I know a guy who went FD, you're out man honestly.

Was he told he couldn't ERR to a tower?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I hate to pile on but a OKC classmate went though this a few years ago. She wanted to go down the same path as you but her center Fac Rep looked into it a lot and came back with the firm and conclusive answer that there is no path for a 2154 Flight Data person to get back to ATC, short of reapplying from scratch. I don’t think there was any changes to the national release or transfer policy since then to change that.

I don’t know how your Fac Rep could not have been aware of that, unless he literally did mean you might be able to ERR to another center as a 2154 (but I don’t even think that exists either), and even if they meant that it’s either a catastrophic failure to communicate on his end or in comprehension on your end.

 

[slim]

I hate to pile on but a OKC classmate went though this a few years ago. She wanted to go down the same path as you but her center Fac Rep looked into it a lot and came back with the firm and conclusive answer that there is no path for a 2154 Flight Data person to get back to ATC, short of reapplying from scratch. I don’t think there was any changes to the national release or transfer policy since then to change that.

I don’t know how your Fac Rep could not have been aware of that, unless he literally did mean you might be able to ERR to another center as a 2154 (but I don’t even think that exists either), and even if they meant that it’s either a catastrophic failure to communicate on his end or in comprehension on your end.

You can't ERR to another facility as a FD but you can apply for a FD position at another center. I've seen it done. But doubt you will be able to get back into controlling.

 

[GolfKilo]

I hate to pile on but a OKC classmate went though this a few years ago. She wanted to go down the same path as you but her center Fac Rep looked into it a lot and came back with the firm and conclusive answer that there is no path for a 2154 Flight Data person to get back to ATC, short of reapplying from scratch. I don’t think there was any changes to the national release or transfer policy since then to change that.

I don’t know how your Fac Rep could not have been aware of that, unless he literally did mean you might be able to ERR to another center as a 2154 (but I don’t even think that exists either), and even if they meant that it’s either a catastrophic failure to communicate on his end or in comprehension on your end.

Gotcha. Thanks for the info... My rep specifically mentioned ERR'ing to a tower, not another center FD though. He even gave me a couple suggestions on which ones to go to, so I guess that means maybe he wasn't aware🤷‍♂️. You can ERR to another FD Center unit. There have been 2 guys do it here already since I have been in FD.

Unfortunately I am in a situation where I can't move due to my wife's job, which is why I chose to stay where I am and try to ERR to a local tower.

 

[32andBelow]

why would NATCA have advised you to do this? You should have gotten towers with certs. And I’ve seen people Get FD after not getting anything in the next with no certs. That all seems really odd

 

[GolfKilo]

why would NATCA have advised you to do this? You should have gotten towers with certs. And I’ve seen people Get FD after not getting anything in the next with no certs. That all seems really odd

I only had my D-side certs. I didn't have any R-side certs. If you only have D-side certs and it's your first facility, then you only qualify for a level 4 or 5 tower only...the tower can't have any radar, so it really limits my options. I chose to ERR into FD at his advice that I could ERR to a local level 5 tower once a spot opens up.

Thought reaching out on here would help, but I think I've just confused myself (and everyone) a little more. I'll just talk to some NATCA people here and see what they say.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I only had my D-side certs. I didn't have any R-side certs. If you only have D-side certs and it's your first facility, then you only qualify for a level 4 or 5 tower only...the tower can't have any radar, so it really limits my options. I chose to ERR into FD at his advice that I could ERR to a local level 5 tower once a spot opens up.

Thought reaching out on here would help, but I think I've just confused myself (and everyone) a little more. I'll just talk to some NATCA people here and see what they say.

I hate to pile on again but it seems like the Fac Rep didn’t do you too many favors. The you can’t go to a tower with radar if you wash out without a center with D’s but no radar cert is just not true. That used to be a lazy/easy answer some people would say, but if you look at those NEST meeting recaps before they pulled them all down, there were plenty examples of center D-2 training failures (D certs but no R’s) who went to level 5 and 6 up/downs. There are plenty of examples of people who were off the street hires on the local N90 bid who went to low level up/downs too with no radar certs there.

I understand you wanting to stay in the area though so hopefully still have a 2154 federal retirement job is good enough consolation. Or you can try to reapply but I don’t think you can request a facility as you would probably only qualify for a OTS bid, and have to do the OKC screen and random facility placement bullshit. It’s crap that 52 weeks as a D side does not count toward the previous experience bid, D side at a busy center must be as hard/busy as a small tower you can get the 52 weeks at.

 

[GolfKilo]

I hate to pile on again but it seems like the Fac Rep didn’t do you too many favors. The you can’t go to a tower with radar if you wash out without a center with D’s but no radar cert is just not true. That used to be a lazy/easy answer some people would say, but if you look at those NEST meeting recaps before they pulled them all down, there were plenty examples of center D-2 training failures (D certs but no R’s) who went to level 5 and 6 up/downs. There are plenty of examples of people who were off the street hires on the local N90 bid who went to low level up/downs too with no radar certs there.

I understand you wanting to stay in the area though so hopefully still have a 2154 federal retirement job is good enough consolation. Or you can try to reapply but I don’t think you can request a facility as you would probably only qualify for a OTS bid, and have to do the OKC screen and random facility placement bullshit. It’s crap that 52 weeks as a D side does not count toward the previous experience bid, D side at a busy center must be as hard/busy as a small tower you can get the 52 weeks at.

Appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure why the ATM here and my fac rep told me a level 4 or 5 tower only are my only options. I of course didn't know either way and assumed that I was in good hands and they were telling me accurate information. I should have asked for some documents in writing. It's a shame to hear all of this now.

I'm happy in Flight Data, and it's something I could do for the next 30 years, but I just wanted to keep my options open because I like controlling better.

Am I still able to access NEST meeting recaps? Are they posted on here?

 

[Mike Kilo]

Appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure why the ATM here and my fac rep told me a level 4 or 5 tower only are my only options. I of course didn't know either way and assumed that I was in good hands and they were telling me accurate information. I should have asked for some documents in writing. It's a shame to hear all of this now.

I'm happy in Flight Data, and it's something I could do for the next 30 years, but I just wanted to keep my options open because I like controlling better.

Am I still able to access NEST meeting recaps? Are they posted on here?

Doesn’t sound intentional at least, though that is little consolation in your situation. A lot of facreps and management don’t understand the NEST or NCEPT process and tend to spout a lot of misinformation.

 

[GolfKilo]

Doesn’t sound intentional at least, though that is little consolation in your situation. A lot of facreps and management don’t understand the NEST or NCEPT process and tend to spout a lot of misinformation.

Makes sense.

How does everyone on here know so much? lol I feel so out of the loop with everything FAA.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Makes sense.

How does everyone on here know so much? lol I feel so out of the loop with everything FAA.

Experience and actual open discussion. Some members here are also on Natca details and/or part of the local eboard.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure why the ATM here and my fac rep told me a level 4 or 5 tower only are my only options. I of course didn't know either way and assumed that I was in good hands and they were telling me accurate information. I should have asked for some documents in writing. It's a shame to hear all of this now.

I'm happy in Flight Data, and it's something I could do for the next 30 years, but I just wanted to keep my options open because I like controlling better.

Am I still able to access NEST meeting recaps? Are they posted on here?

Unfortunately the NEST recaps got pulled off the website. Which is too bad they were a great tool, they listed everyone in that NEST panel, where they were, how far in training they got, and where they got reassigned too. It was a great tool to be able to help trainees know exactly what to expect and what options were likely and available based on their specific situation. They should have kept them up there and just redact the names if they were worried about privacy.