January 2020 NEST Panel

Move78

Forum Sage
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1,131
Appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure why the ATM here and my fac rep told me a level 4 or 5 tower only are my only options. I of course didn't know either way and assumed that I was in good hands and they were telling me accurate information. I should have asked for some documents in writing. It's a shame to hear all of this now.

I'm happy in Flight Data, and it's something I could do for the next 30 years, but I just wanted to keep my options open because I like controlling better.

Am I still able to access NEST meeting recaps? Are they posted on here?
Part of the NEST process includes an ATM recommendation for retention options that carry weight so it’s possible you were likely actually only going to be offered 4-5 towers with no radar idk. Clearly there’s some kind of misinformation and/or misunderstanding in this scenario though.
Tough to comment without all the info. Possible path could have been to play the NEST lotto and then decline and apply 2154 if you didn’t get a local facility. Maybe there was uncertainty around the timetable of 2154 availability?
 

jdatc

Trusted Contributor
Messages
361
Unfortunately the NEST recaps got pulled off the website. Which is too bad they were a great tool, they listed everyone in that NEST panel, where they were, how far in training they got, and where they got reassigned too. It was a great tool to be able to help trainees know exactly what to expect and what options were likely and available based on their specific situation. They should have kept them up there and just redact the names if they were worried about privacy.
Agreed. I also did get a little Schadenfreude joy watching people who I knew were going to facilities out of their depth being sent back. Some of them won the next lotto though, so there is that...
 

GolfKilo

Member
Messages
14
Part of the NEST process includes an ATM recommendation for retention options that carry weight so it’s possible you were likely actually only going to be offered 4-5 towers with no radar idk. Clearly there’s some kind of misinformation and/or misunderstanding in this scenario though.
Tough to comment without all the info. Possible path could have been to play the NEST lotto and then decline and apply 2154 if you didn’t get a local facility. Maybe there was uncertainty around the timetable of 2154 availability?
Yup, you nailed it... my choices were stay in the NEST and I would have been handed a list of level 4-5 towers, or the 2154 position was going to going to someone else. I had to to chose what I wanted to do, and they only gave me 24 hours to make the decision. Had I known ERR wasn't going to be an option, I would have played the NEST lotto.

Unfortunately the NEST recaps got pulled off the website. Which is too bad they were a great tool, they listed everyone in that NEST panel, where they were, how far in training they got, and where they got reassigned too. It was a great tool to be able to help trainees know exactly what to expect and what options were likely and available based on their specific situation. They should have kept them up there and just redact the names if they were worried about privacy.
gotcha...thanks.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
5,232
Yup, you nailed it... my choices were stay in the NEST and I would have been handed a list of level 4-5 towers, or the 2154 position was going to going to someone else. I had to to chose what I wanted to do, and they only gave me 24 hours to make the decision. Had I known ERR wasn't going to be an option, I would have played the NEST lotto.
Dude you got like the worst advice ever. And only 24 hours to decide? None of this makes any sense. I’d be really mad at your rep and demand answers
 

GolfKilo

Member
Messages
14
Dude you got like the worst advice ever. And only 24 hours to decide? None of this makes any sense. I’d be really mad at your rep and demand answers
Now that I'm learning all of this new information I am realizing that lol

The 24 hours came from the ATM. I was told there was some sort of deadline I had to go into the NEST (30 days from OJT termination), and they told me on the 29th day that I had to make a decision.
 

Morgan_Freeman_But_Not

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Staff member
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243
Now that I'm learning all of this new information I am realizing that lol

The 24 hours came from the ATM. I was told there was some sort of deadline I had to go into the NEST (30 days from OJT termination), and they told me on the 29th day that I had to make a decision.
Were you ever CPC at any facility prior to termination of your OJT? If not, are you probationary?
 

Shikaka

Legendary Member
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2,355
Never heard of a NEST deadline either, sounds like you're facility has it out for you with what you're saying.
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
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1,894
Never heard of a NEST deadline either, sounds like you're facility has it out for you with what you're saying.
They could have meant deadline for the next NEST panel. Otherwise he could have been waiting a bit for the next one. I agree that they didn’t do him any favors for sure.
 

TushingPin

Trusted Contributor
Messages
331
Not sure who all has been around these forums that long but something similar to this happened to me in like the month or two before the NEST. (Oct/Nov timeframe). I withdrew from training from a level 11 with no positions other than FD. Sent to NEST, NEST allegedly recommended level 4/5's but none were available. I was offered FSS, I told them I couldnt report from Florida to Alaska within 2 weeks, they told me that 2154 or termination or FSS were my only options, kept pressuring me with timelines to get me to make a decision. About a week out I told them I just couldnt make the FSS class, and then they said it was up to me to apply (essentially ERR from my understanding) to one of the available FD spots, and I got hired by a contract tower. Im genuinely interested how many additional people this happened to.
 

FightingIrish2012

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1,020
Not sure who all has been around these forums that long but something similar to this happened to me in like the month or two before the NEST. (Oct/Nov timeframe). I withdrew from training from a level 11 with no positions other than FD. Sent to NEST, NEST allegedly recommended level 4/5's but none were available. I was offered FSS, I told them I couldnt report from Florida to Alaska within 2 weeks, they told me that 2154 or termination or FSS were my only options, kept pressuring me with timelines to get me to make a decision. About a week out I told them I just couldnt make the FSS class, and then they said it was up to me to apply (essentially ERR from my understanding) to one of the available FD spots, and I got hired by a contract tower. Im genuinely interested how many additional people this happened to.
It sucks it didn't work out for you either. Your situation does seem to be different though. If you didn't make it as a Level 11 and only had FD, you were probably still AD or at most D1, right? The other guy had all his D-sides at a center and was a D2, that is still a training failure but good progress for a trainee and displays the aptitude to do the job. He seems like he got screwed but based on the rules and past precedence when they would publish NEST reports it looks like your situation was probably handled correctly.

With only FD it is common to only be offered the lowest level towers only if avaibale, often times people are not offered anything. The options for FSS or 2154 are relatively new, that came a couple years after NEST first started. I think it is to offer people who they don't think have great ATC potential chance to stay with the Agency, as well as fill hard to staff positions like Alaska FSS or FD. As far as how many people that happen too, I used to see it regularly for people in similar situations as you when they used to publish the reports, some accepted the offer, some resigned.
 

TushingPin

Trusted Contributor
Messages
331
It sucks it didn't work out for you either. Your situation does seem to be different though. If you didn't make it as a Level 11 and only had FD, you were probably still AD or at most D1, right? The other guy had all his D-sides at a center and was a D2, that is still a training failure but good progress for a trainee and displays the aptitude to do the job. He seems like he got screwed but based on the rules and past precedence when they would publish NEST reports it looks like your situation was probably handled correctly.

With only FD it is common to only be offered the lowest level towers only if avaibale, often times people are not offered anything. The options for FSS or 2154 are relatively new, that came a couple years after NEST first started. I think it is to offer people who they don't think have great ATC potential chance to stay with the Agency, as well as fill hard to staff positions like Alaska FSS or FD. As far as how many people that happen too, I used to see it regularly for people in similar situations as you when they used to publish the reports, some accepted the offer, some resigned.
Except I was hired as a prior experience employee. So I was D1 saved pay from a GS11 job. The most annoying part about my situation is that there are no "D-Sides" at an approach control, just handoffs that aren't trained on until after the certification of a sector, and really are just a formality (aka, I had all my hours for my sector for it, was just waiting to finish my sector before finalizing that). Each individual sector can range in complexity from at a minimum (at least what I was told) level 8 traffic, to obviously level 11 if not 12 traffic. I should have explained more I suppose in the initial post, but my point being is that the NEST was (and probably still is) doing a disservice to certain individuals. It works great for people who have experience and knows what they're doing, but when you're new to the agency and have ATMs/supervisors that are oblivious to the process, or are malicious about it, then it leads to stuff like someone whos making progress and more than likely has the aptitude to be a controller get sent to 2154, or FSS possibly. Another example that I found out about was someone who was Tower checked out, and put up for certification in a level 8 up/down. He didnt get checked out, they wanted to see more etc, but the ATM pulled the plug on training for whatever reason. Now, since this guy only had Tower and no Radar experience (even though the trainers thought he was there or almost there) he was looking at being sent to FSS as well. Sorry for the rant, just found my situation (and when I posted at the time multiple others) are not all that common.
 

caprisun

Member
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28
Just hearing all these stories, it almost seems it’s better to fast track if you can back to your old facility and re-certify there rather than going to the nest. Now in a lot of cases that’s obviously not possible, but for some it may be. At least with re-certifying it resets your training failure count and can always try to err again. If you go to the nest and for whatever reason aren’t successful there your only options are FSS or even possibly let go.
 

FightingIrish2012

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1,020
Just hearing all these stories, it almost seems it’s better to fast track if you can back to your old facility and re-certify there rather than going to the nest. Now in a lot of cases that’s obviously not possible, but for some it may be. At least with re-certifying it resets your training failure count and can always try to err again. If you go to the nest and for whatever reason aren’t successful there your only options are FSS or even possibly let go.
That’s for the most part right but typically the only people offered FSS and 2154 are academy grads, not CPC-IT failures. CPCIT always get facilities, if their old one is full they get similar level ones.
Also regarding the reset of a training failure count, that is true but it no longer matters. They used to have a thing that said something like “failure to certify if two consecutive facility will result in termination regardless of circumstances”. But they took that out of future MOUs, largely because they weren’t enforcing it even when it was there.
 

Petergraham1

Member
Messages
25
I only had my D-side certs. I didn't have any R-side certs. If you only have D-side certs and it's your first facility, then you only qualify for a level 4 or 5 tower only...the tower can't have any radar, so it really limits my options. I chose to ERR into FD at his advice that I could ERR to a local level 5 tower once a spot opens up.

Thought reaching out on here would help, but I think I've just confused myself (and everyone) a little more. I'll just talk to some NATCA people here and see what they say.
Wow your FacRep did you dirty. I was same exact situation as you back in 2015. I had all D sides at my level 11 Center. I washed out on my first R side position so I didn't get any R sides. I went into the NEST and went to a level 7 tower a couple of hours away. I certified there and was there for a few years. Now Im at a level 12 tower, still in training.
 

GolfKilo

Member
Messages
14
Wow your FacRep did you dirty. I was same exact situation as you back in 2015. I had all D sides at my level 11 Center. I washed out on my first R side position so I didn't get any R sides. I went into the NEST and went to a level 7 tower a couple of hours away. I certified there and was there for a few years. Now Im at a level 12 tower, still in training.
I guess so lol.
That's great to hear for you though.... I wonder if things have changed since 2015 regarding the NEST process? Nothing was ever "explained" to me about the NEST, I was just "told" there were certain dates that a list came out and that I could only pick from level 4 or 5 tower only facilities. I wish I would have looked into it more at the time. It always seemed strange to me that I was put on the same level as A-side wash outs.
 

ATCJoe85

Trusted Contributor
Messages
381
Also regarding the reset of a training failure count, that is true but it no longer matters. They used to have a thing that said something like “failure to certify if two consecutive facility will result in termination regardless of circumstances”. But they took that out of future MOUs, largely because they weren’t enforcing it even when it was there.
Heh. I always figured this would never be enforced. A few people tried to warn others of the "risk" now associated with transferring, but I never took this seriously. First, two consecutive failures had to be insanely rare to begin with, but then to actually go on and terminate a CPC??? I'd be very surprised if a single person in the agency was terminated based on this policy.
Didn't realize they had removed that language though.
 
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