Kobe Crash and FAA Being Sued

Bandit117

Trusted Contributor
Messages
191
Yes that is right, but the company doesn’t authorize IFR flight which is probably why he never asked for a clearance. Not that it would have helped by that point, you can get disoriented whether you’re on a clearance or not.
Many medflight outfits require the helo to be on auto pilot when they are on an ifr flight plan, even they aren’t IMC. It’s an insurance pushback from the recent spate of crashes. It’s possible they weren’t equipped with one, thus they couldn’t get insurance for it, so the company wouldn’t allow it as part of their SOP?
 

JumperBones

Active Member
Messages
50
The fact that the papers even published the names of controllers based on mere allegations are more proof that most “journalists” are nothing more than self serving scum peddling embellished, cherry-picked stories presented for maximum shock in exchange for ad revenue. As a professional class they seem to have little integrity or morals, a few examples to the contrary.

Apparently the names came from the initial NTSB accident investigation report.
 
Messages
19
Usually they’re one in the same...Dodgers fans, too. Y’know, the ones that beat a Giants fan within an inch of his life in front of his son just because he was a Giants fan...don’t discount the putridity that are Los Angelinos.

source: born and raised in LA.
Trust me I know. I was born and raised there too.
 

sizziano

Trusted Contributor
Messages
404
Yes that is right, but the company doesn’t authorize IFR flight which is probably why he never asked for a clearance. Not that it would have helped by that point, you can get disoriented whether you’re on a clearance or not.

In an emergency he could do whatever he wanted to but you know that. He probably just didn't want to get in trouble and instead of 8 people killed.
 

JumperBones

Active Member
Messages
50
He could also have, I don't know, maybe slowed the fuck down...

The reason SVFR rules for helos are what the are is predicated on their ability to slow to a crawl or a full stop, and the ability to put it down almost anywhere if completely enveloped. But nope, he had places to be!
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,322
I grew up like 5 miles from where he crashed. Those mountains aren’t even that tall. He would have been only a couple hundred feet over the road to do what he did.
 

AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise

Trusted Contributor
Messages
162
I’m sure there was an element of “Get There Itis”. When you’re transporting a celebrity and his family somewhere it’s obviously vitally important to get them where they need to be on time, and even more difficult and intimidating to tell them “Due to weather we cannot fly today”. I’ll have to go back and listen to the tapes and re read the suit to see if they have a valid claim. If I had to guess the FAA will settle in court if the controllers didn’t follow the 7110.65 to a T.
 

Shikaka

Legendary Member
Messages
1,785
I’m sure there was an element of “Get There Itis”. When you’re transporting a celebrity and his family somewhere it’s obviously vitally important to get them where they need to be on time, and even more difficult and intimidating to tell them “Due to weather we cannot fly today”. I’ll have to go back and listen to the tapes and re read the suit to see if they have a valid claim. If I had to guess the FAA will settle in court if the controllers didn’t follow the 7110.65 to a T.

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't their claim that the controller was requesting too much information which overwhelmed the pilot and lead to the unplanned lithobraking maneuver?
 

Termine

Trusted Contributor
Messages
258
Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't their claim that the controller was requesting too much information which overwhelmed the pilot and lead to the unplanned lithobraking maneuver?

That's one claim. They actually use the phrase "critical phase of flight" which is just another indication that they don't know what they're talking about.
 

AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise

Trusted Contributor
Messages
162
Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't their claim that the controller was requesting too much information which overwhelmed the pilot and lead to the unplanned lithobraking maneuver?
There are two quotes from the LATimes Article that outline why there is a lawsuit:
1. The cross-complaint by Island Express accuses one of the controllers of not properly terminating radar services, leading the pilot to believe “he was still being surveilled and being provided flight following” and that air traffic controllers “would have warned him of unsafe proximity to terrain.”
2. “Had [the controllers] not engaged in the numerous negligent acts and/or omissions stated herein, then the Pilot [Ara Zobayan] would not have been forced to respond to multiple [air traffic control] requests and commands during the most critical phase of the flight,” the cross-complaint said.
On the surface It seems like a money grab and a deflection of responsibility by the helicopter company. Again, I’ll have to go back and listen to the tapes to Jog my memory on The sequence of events. Just based on what is stated above it stands to reason the controllers had lost radar contact on the aircraft and were trying to re-establish it, but couldn’t because he was too low. When he tried to climb above the clouds so they could establish radar contact he got disoriented in a cloud layer. Long story short he should’ve never departed VFR, and clearly SVFR was marginal at best. He should’ve departed IFR, but if the company didn’t allow it he should’ve told Kobe to take a limo. And Am I the only one who believes Vanessa Bryant filing a wrongful death lawsuit against the estate of the pilot is bullshit? First his family had to deal with his death, now they get to deal with a multi-millionaire suing their family because of it.
 

Shikaka

Legendary Member
Messages
1,785
There are two quotes from the LATimes Article that outline why there is a lawsuit:
1. The cross-complaint by Island Express accuses one of the controllers of not properly terminating radar services, leading the pilot to believe “he was still being surveilled and being provided flight following” and that air traffic controllers “would have warned him of unsafe proximity to terrain.”
2. “Had [the controllers] not engaged in the numerous negligent acts and/or omissions stated herein, then the Pilot [Ara Zobayan] would not have been forced to respond to multiple [air traffic control] requests and commands during the most critical phase of the flight,” the cross-complaint said.
On the surface It seems like a money grab and a deflection of responsibility by the helicopter company. Again, I’ll have to go back and listen to the tapes to Jog my memory on The sequence of events. Just based on what is stated above it stands to reason the controllers had lost radar contact on the aircraft and were trying to re-establish it, but couldn’t because he was too low. When he tried to climb above the clouds so they could establish radar contact he got disoriented in a cloud layer. Long story short he should’ve never departed VFR, and clearly SVFR was marginal at best. He should’ve departed IFR, but if the company didn’t allow it he should’ve told Kobe to take a limo. And Am I the only one who believes Vanessa Bryant filing a wrongful death lawsuit against the estate of the pilot is bullshit? First his family had to deal with his death, now they get to deal with a multi-millionaire suing their family because of it.

Yeah, filing against his estate when you're already filthy rich is dirty af. Goes to show how much respect they have for the dead in an accident.
 

vectorwagon

Trusted Contributor
Messages
174
Was the helicopter ever radar identified even from the very first controller? I haven’t read everything yet so I don’t know but if he wasn’t there’s another shocking item that shows they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about and further evidence that the pilot was an idiot if he thought he was - or at least their claim makes him one
 

JumperBones

Active Member
Messages
50
Nope, they didn't. HOW DARE THEY! lol

See multiple people here grew up in the LA area...A significant part of this is the marine layer, coastal fog pushing inland is common here, and the attitude towards it can become really complacent, just like here. Special-Vee for helicopters is routine. As they say, complacency kills, and it did.
 

CF

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I ♥ pointSixtyFive
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We keep talking about svfr but wasn’t he outside the surface area? Wouldn’t he have just been requesting VFR flight following? And if he wasn’t in VFR conditions he was violating the CFRs by trying to fly vfr when he obviously wasn’t in those conditions?
 

CaptainObvious

Forum Sage
Messages
1,284
Was the helicopter ever radar identified even from the very first controller? I haven’t read everything yet so I don’t know but if he wasn’t there’s another shocking item that shows they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about and further evidence that the pilot was an idiot if he thought he was - or at least their claim makes him one
My thoughts too. Am I going to have to remember every person I terminate or calls for a radio check or transponder check so I can brief the next controller?
 

ClearanceClarence

Forum Sage
Messages
703
Apparently that Shitty McFuckface dude over on Reddit got a PM from a “reporter” asking him for comment. Watch out MJ they’ll be comin after you next!
 

JumperBones

Active Member
Messages
50
We keep talking about svfr but wasn’t he outside the surface area? Wouldn’t he have just been requesting VFR flight following? And if he wasn’t in VFR conditions he was violating the CFRs by trying to fly vfr when he obviously wasn’t in those conditions?

Yes. He used SVFR to get thru the BUR and VNY surface areas, and was 'maintaining VFR' and requesting flight following. Never declared emergency or requested emergency vectors.
 
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