+TSRA said:President is speaking live. Lots of comments on Air Traffic Sound
+TSRA said:President is speaking live. Lots of comments on Air Traffic Controllers.
Seems he's pointing most of the blame on DEI.
Midair Collision DCA
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#81 -
#82 Damn. Trump blaming DEI and the PAT pilot.
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#83 +TSRA said:
President is speaking live. Lots of comments on Air Traffic Controllers.
Comments from the president or comments from the public on the stream?
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#84 Whiskey Charlie said:
Comments from the president or comments from the public on the stream?
No public/press comments yet. All comments regarding ATC are from President, VP, DOD, and DOT guys.
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#85 +TSRA said:
President is speaking live. Lots of comments on Air Traffic Controllers.
I never comment, I'm a lurker, but this briefing angered me more than anything I've watched in a long time. The union absolutely has to address it.
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#86 DankVectorz said:
Unless I’m reading this wrong, the helo should have been at or below 200’ but was at 380’. AOB 200’ and he’s no factor.
https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/09-05-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Heli.pdf
We should seriously consider giving tower controllers some kind of radar display in the cab where they could see traffic such that they could un-fuck conflicts when things aren't going the way they should.
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#87 KP-ATC said:
We should seriously consider giving tower controllers some kind of radar display in the cab where they could see traffic such that they could un-fuck conflicts when things aren't going the way they should.
I only watched a little bit, I want to see everything put together before blaming anyone. However he was spot on with the low standards to qualify to do the job.
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#88 KP-ATC said:
We should seriously consider giving tower controllers some kind of radar display in the cab where they could see traffic such that they could un-fuck conflicts when things aren't going the way they should.
They do have Certified STARS scopes in the tower in core airports as well as many others. Class C & B. They're not as big as a scope. More like 16x16 but they are the same feeds and tower controllers use them a lot. They also CA CA.
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#89 Nothing like Center controllers blaming a tower controller for using approved separation methods.
Helicopters operate close to final like this every day at busy metropolitan airports. Controller already did more than plenty of my coworkers by telling the pilot to "pass behind".
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#90 KP-ATC said:
We should seriously consider giving tower controllers some kind of radar display in the cab where they could see traffic such that they could un-fuck conflicts when things aren't going the way they should.
They definitely have a CTRD.
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#91 Acatc2023 said:
I only watched a little bit, I want to see everything put together before blaming anyone. However he was spot on with the low standards to qualify to do the job.
Are you saying its easier to pass the academy?
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#92 Is it true that Blue Streak was never issued the helo traffic?
Also PAT wasn't advised that his traffic was turning left onto the final and descending.
Add an extremely challenging visual environment for the pilots with a lot of lights and clutter.
No traffic or safety alert given...
Wow, this doesn't look good. -
#93 Mindsage25 said:
Are you saying its easier to pass the academy?
Academy is the bare minimum. And yes, it’s easy for those who are made for this job. Where standards have diminished is at the facility.
This is not in reference to the controllers at Reagan.
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#94 KP-ATC said:
We should seriously consider giving tower controllers some kind of radar display in the cab where they could see traffic such that they could un-fuck conflicts when things aren't going the way they should.
We do. Called windows.
I don't know, maybe you were hinting at that.
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#95 ATCDave said:
Is it true that Blue Streak was never issued the helo traffic?
Also PAT wasn't advised that his traffic was turning left onto the final and descending.
Add an extremely challenging visual environment for the pilots with a lot of lights and clutter.
No traffic or safety alert given...
Wow, this doesn't look good.PAT was told the traffic was circling to 33, light clutter is no factor since the traffic was called when the RJ was well above the skyline from PATs pov both times.
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#96 ATCDave said:
Is it true that Blue Streak was never issued the helo traffic?
Also PAT wasn't advised that his traffic was turning left onto the final and descending.
Add an extremely challenging visual environment for the pilots with a lot of lights and clutter.
No traffic or safety alert given...
Wow, this doesn't look good.Watching that replay, it’s nuts to me that a safety alert wasn’t issued. Yes, PAT25 was instructed to pass behind JIA5342, and read it back, but does it look like they’ll do that on that screen?
Part of the job is to issue safety alerts when planes don’t do what they’re supposed to do, and recognize when that time is.
I guess I just don’t understand the attitude of “the controller got the readback, there’s nothing more they could have/should have done.”
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#97 KP-ATC said:
We should seriously consider giving tower controllers some kind of radar display in the cab where they could see traffic such that they could un-fuck conflicts when things aren't going the way they should.
Last 20 years: "visual seperation approved", conflict unfucked.
January 29th, 2025: "visual seperation approved" -- 'what an idiot that controller was. He didn't do nearly enough. I bet DEI was involved. Let's get em!'
ATCDave said:
Is it true that Blue Streak was never issued the helo traffic?
Also PAT wasn't advised that his traffic was turning left onto the final and descending.
Add an extremely challenging visual environment for the pilots with a lot of lights and clutter.
No traffic or safety alert given...
Wow, this doesn't look good.Damn it! Why won't it read!?
DankVectorz said:
I’m not advocating for silence but I’m certainly going to speak against the Union coming out “well we’re on 6 day weeks and short staffed what did you expect?” out of the blue before the bodies have even been pulled from the water.
11 days ago I'd have agreed with this sentiment. But now I'd say we have to choose between fighting fire with fire or letting ourselves burn.
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#98 Shikaka said:
PAT was told the traffic was circling to 33, light clutter is no factor since the traffic was called when the RJ was well above the skyline from PATs pov both times.
My question(s): Does an Army helo pilot even know what a "circle" means? Where was the CRJ circling from (you & I know but did the PAT pilot)? Did the PAT pilot know that the CRJ is free to maneuver as necessary to keep the RWY in sight while continue its descent to land?
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#99 Homsar said:
Watching that replay, it’s nuts to me that a safety alert wasn’t issued. Yes, PAT25 was instructed to pass behind JIA5342, and read it back, but does it look like they’ll do that on that screen?
Part of the job is to issue safety alerts when planes don’t do what they’re supposed to do, and recognize when that time is.
I guess I just don’t understand the attitude of “the controller got the readback, there’s nothing more they could have/should have done.”
Your could even tell the controller was uncomfortable with it as well after approving the visual sep. I haven’t worked the tower in years and it wasn’t as busy as DCA but I’d still say there was definitely more that could’ve been done to have prevented this. But it’s over now and we just have to wait for the investigation/facts to come out and learn from it.
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#100 
