Midair Collision DCA

GMX said:
The biggest problem with today's supes is that they aren't the logical progression (like any industry) of veteran employees--with a lot of experience desire to be leaders guiding and molding the next generation of controllers--who take the position and create growth. This is because there's no longer a real incentive for veterans to take a leadership position now.

Nowadays supes are just slaves to the trade with no trust or autonomy to excel and create real growth among the workforce. It's strictly an HR boondoggle and the ones who accept this reality are just shells (AKA shills) of the ATC/Government MACHINE. Not to mention, many don't have real world experience or tenure; if they hit the right keywords for the KSA AI, or check the correct biographical boxes they get it! Wuwu!

Instead, what we now have by and large are those who couldn't transfer within NCEPT without taking a supe bid. (NCEPT is a farce...I DO understand the supe application tactic, but it's still disingenuous, so fuck off). They get selected due to lack of real qualified applicants and they take their "better" locations with a "pay raise" and then just try to be a "boss" since they never had real leadership in their sights and/or possessed the qualities needed for it to begin with. Does it really make sense to have a brand new 29-year-old supe pacing behind a veteran controller (15+ years) who was working position when the supe was in junior high school, while the supe points out a couple birds or inquires about gear down constantly? "Put that memory aid up, yo!" "...Make sure he says the word 'runway' instead of just '27 left'..."

The FAA loves this because they can force these supes to follow a template of bureaucracy and it disincentivises them from performing true leadership and letting them have autonomy. All the lawyers who make the rules pretend they are saving lives while they authorize "experts" like they did with Fauci and insist we all accept the "expert" "opinions" of our "betters". Lots of people on this board went along with that bullshit. They're probably all supes now!
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Very well said, most OSs and management are in no way leaders, mentors, or experts at the job. The good ones stand out like bright stars, but they really are few and far between.
 
GMX said:
The biggest problem with today's supes is that they aren't the logical progression (like any industry) of veteran employees--with a lot of experience desire to be leaders guiding and molding the next generation of controllers--who take the position and create growth. This is because there's no longer a real incentive for veterans to take a leadership position now.

Nowadays supes are just slaves to the trade with no trust or autonomy to excel and create real growth among the workforce. It's strictly an HR boondoggle and the ones who accept this reality are just shells (AKA shills) of the ATC/Government MACHINE. Not to mention, many don't have real world experience or tenure; if they hit the right keywords for the KSA AI, or check the correct biographical boxes they get it! Wuwu!

Instead, what we now have by and large are those who couldn't transfer within NCEPT without taking a supe bid. (NCEPT is a farce...I DO understand the supe application tactic, but it's still disingenuous, so fuck off). They get selected due to lack of real qualified applicants and they take their "better" locations with a "pay raise" and then just try to be a "boss" since they never had real leadership in their sights and/or possessed the qualities needed for it to begin with. Does it really make sense to have a brand new 29-year-old supe pacing behind a veteran controller (15+ years) who was working position when the supe was in junior high school, while the supe points out a couple birds or inquires about gear down constantly? "Put that memory aid up, yo!" "...Make sure he says the word 'runway' instead of just '27 left'..."
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I'm quoting you just so I can like it up until it got to the Fauci stuff, Covid drama is so 2021.
 
DADDYSbabyBIRD said:
Very well said, most OSs and management are in no way leaders, mentors, or experts at the job. The good ones stand out like bright stars, but they really are few and far between.
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And they get punished by their bosses for it. Being the best at running the operation gets you fucking nowhere. It’s all the other bullshit that’s either useless or detrimental that gets you ahead as a manager.
 
GMX said:
The biggest problem with today's supes is that they aren't the logical progression (like any industry) of veteran employees--with a lot of experience desire to be leaders guiding and molding the next generation of controllers--who take the position and create growth. This is because there's no longer a real incentive for veterans to take a leadership position now.

Nowadays supes are just slaves to the trade with no trust or autonomy to excel and create real growth among the workforce. It's strictly an HR boondoggle and the ones who accept this reality are just shells (AKA shills) of the ATC/Government MACHINE. Not to mention, many don't have real world experience or tenure; if they hit the right keywords for the KSA AI, or check the correct biographical boxes they get it! Wuwu!

Instead, what we now have by and large are those who couldn't transfer within NCEPT without taking a supe bid. (NCEPT is a farce...I DO understand the supe application tactic, but it's still disingenuous, so fuck off). They get selected due to lack of real qualified applicants and they take their "better" locations with a "pay raise" and then just try to be a "boss" since they never had real leadership in their sights and/or possessed the qualities needed for it to begin with. Does it really make sense to have a brand new 29-year-old supe pacing behind a veteran controller (15+ years) who was working position when the supe was in junior high school, while the supe points out a couple birds or inquires about gear down constantly? "Put that memory aid up, yo!" "...Make sure he says the word 'runway' instead of just '27 left'..."

The FAA loves this because they can force these supes to follow a template of bureaucracy and it disincentivises them from performing true leadership and letting them have autonomy. All the lawyers who make the rules pretend they are saving lives while they authorize "experts" like they did with Fauci and insist we all accept the "expert" "opinions" of our "betters". Lots of people on this board went along with that bullshit. They're probably all supes now!
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I don't want to be a SUP because I don't want to push management's stupid agendas that, after some time turn into great, logical, rational concepts to said SUP who in turn start making up their own crap - like being paranode about length of breaks or at least 3 hours of training per day.

Just stop having f*cking agendas, box checking tasks, and daily objectives. For God sakes let the day just cruise by and the rotation work itself. This accident (unfortunately) proves that accidents are going to happen no matter how many weather briefs I have to watch, how many ELMS I have to click through, verbal safety briefs we're corned into, PRoCs you shove down my throat, staffing CIC. Unfortunately sh*t is going to happen. I promise Management, I am not out to get you. I do not walk into work everyday hoping for a deal, emergency, or accident.
 
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Move78 said:
And they get punished by their bosses for it. Being the best at running the operation gets you fucking nowhere. It’s all the other bullshit that’s either useless or detrimental that gets you ahead as a manager.
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That's the other big problem. I've know supes who do genuinely want to lead and serve, yet when they try to have their own mgmt style, the real higher ups hold them back and force their hands. It's a terrible cycle they don't seem able to escape in a lot of cases. The ones I had 19 years ago were the best. RIP
 
GulfBravoPapa said:
If you listened to the NTSB report tonight they had five positions open. Local, local assist, ground, clearance delivery, and OS.
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Per the NTSB briefing, there wasn't a clearance delivery controller in the tower. It was Local, Local assist, Ground, OS and another OS in training.
 
KP-ATC said:
The controller working local was the only one that knew they were wired.
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Not the supe or the woman in the background gasping as a fireball exploded over the river? Trust me people were watching once the CA went off and I would be willing to bet my entire retirement the controller responded “he has em in sight”
 
boots said:
Not the supe or the woman in the background gasping as a fireball exploded over the river? Trust me people were watching once the CA went off and I would be willing to bet my entire retirement the controller responded “he has em in sight”
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I agree with you.

We deserved a raise. But the DC mid-air was not good for us.

There are a lot of large non-ATC factors that led to that crash. But I was in shock how long that CA was going off while the HELO was not doing what they were told or doing what they said they were going to do.
 
+TSRA said:
I agree with you.

We deserved a raise. But the DC mid-air was not good for us.

There are a lot of large non-ATC factors that led to that crash. But I was in shock how long that CA was going off while the HELO was not doing what they were told or doing what they said they were going to do.
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We can’t take all the responsibility in the world. The pilots have responsibilities too
 
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