NCEPT debate thread

It's a huge step in fairness and once implemented, you'll no longer have to wait for the random roll of the dice facility adjustment prior to the panel
I think this will negatively impact fairness. Now the guy that just wants out can put in for all of the top facilities to beat out the person who would get the list to change and get selected for somewhere they actually want to go.

Was this in the meeting minutes?
 
I think this will negatively impact fairness. Now the guy that just wants out can put in for all of the top facilities to beat out the person who would get the list to change and get selected for somewhere they actually want to go.

It's not like they can't partially do that already. I can't say for certain, but the top facilities don't seem to change too much between the priority list close to the submission deadline, and after it. Regardless, if they don't care where they go, why is it a bad thing for them to put in for lots of places with high priority? They have just as much right to do that as people who only want a single facility.
 
I think this will negatively impact fairness. Now the guy that just wants out can put in for all of the top facilities to beat out the person who would get the list to change and get selected for somewhere they actually want to go.

Was this in the meeting minutes?
You can complain about fairness in other aspects, having greater transparency isn't one of them. This allows everyone to see where each facility is ranked and know the exact amount of people being selected. If eligible, it also allows people the ability to fly out, tour facilities, and network knowing they have a decent percentage chance of being looked at.
The days of certifying and peppering the top 10 and getting selected are largely over. EWR and ZNY are your only two left. You need to network, this helps tremendously.
 
It's not like they can't partially do that already. I can't say for certain, but the top facilities don't seem to change too much between the priority list close to the submission deadline, and after it. Regardless, if they don't care where they go, why is it a bad thing for them to put in for lots of places with high priority? They have just as much right to do that as people who only want a single facility.
They do have as much right. But if someone only wants to go to the one facility where they're from, it's shitty that someone who really doesn't care where they go would possibly get selected instead.
 
You can complain about fairness in other aspects, having greater transparency isn't one of them. This allows everyone to see where each facility is ranked and know the exact amount of people being selected. If eligible, it also allows people the ability to fly out, tour facilities, and network knowing they have a decent percentage chance of being looked at.
The days of certifying and peppering the top 10 and getting selected are largely over. EWR and ZNY are your only two left. You need to network, this helps tremendously.
I've flown to numerous facilities to tour, network, and verify I wanted to be there whether they were in the top 10 or not. Then if they surprise everyone in the top whatever, I'm covered.
 
I've flown to numerous facilities to tour, network, and verify I wanted to be there whether they were in the top 10 or not. Then if they surprise everyone in the top whatever, I'm covered.
...and how does that make you feel when they don't jump in the top 10 and others are selected over you?
 
They do have as much right. But if someone only wants to go to the one facility where they're from, it's shitty that someone who really doesn't care where they go would possibly get selected instead.
Unfortunately we're all just going to have to accept that getting person X to the facility where they grew up will never out-prioritize staffing the NAS on a national level. If that doosh at your facility wants to pepper the top of the list and go to a place that the formula decides is more important than the facility next to your parents house then you're just going to have to hope they pass on him. Nobody's arguing that it doesn't suck for you. Of course it does. Especially when your getting passed over by all the CheckOutBidOut kids that you trained. I think the path you need to explore here is to try and get leadership on board with holding recent check-outs for X time. Still a long shot but your current position will absolutely never move the needle.
 
That's just the way the priority goes... If one of my facilities do jump up though, I'll get picked over someone just submitting for everything. I'm at a 5. If someone at an 8 sees one of my choices up there and says "F it, it has to be better than here!" They'll probably get selected over me regardless of visiting.
 
Unfortunately we're all just going to have to accept that getting person X to the facility where they grew up will never out-prioritize staffing the NAS on a national level. If that doosh at your facility wants to pepper the top of the list and go to a place that the formula decides is more important than the facility next to your parents house then you're just going to have to hope they pass on him. Nobody's arguing that it doesn't suck for you. Of course it does. Especially when your getting passed over by all the CheckOutBidOut kids that you trained. I think the path you need to explore here is to try and get leadership on board with holding recent check-outs for X time. Still a long shot but your current position will absolutely never move the needle.

You're right, but having the list change before selection increases the chances of the person who wants to be there getting selected. The target facility is still getting someone, so the NAS staffing is improved regardless of who it is.
 
That's just the way the priority goes... If one of my facilities do jump up though, I'll get picked over someone just submitting for everything. I'm at a 5. If someone at an 8 sees one of my choices up there and says "F it, it has to be better than here!" They'll probably get selected over me regardless of visiting.
Given this debate got started over the definition of fairness. I believe it's fair that a level 8 CPC be selected over a level 5. It doesnt appear you're interested in fairness, it seems like you're interested in random chance in the hopes it benefits you.

Lower level CPCs get selected all the time over higher level ones, it's all about how you network and the relationships you build.

Also, at some point, if you're truly unhappy where you're currently at, you need to ask yourself if you're willing to make a move for your career to help you get home. Anyone eligible this past panel could've been selected for EWR, certified in a year, locked up 11 pay, and then bid out once eligible.
 
Given this debate got started over the definition of fairness. I believe it's fair that a level 8 CPC be selected over a level 5. It doesnt appear you're interested in fairness, it seems like you're interested in random chance in the hopes it benefits you.
Random FAA priority hasn't benefited me since NCEPT started, but I'm advocating for it because random FAA priority is imposed equally on all of us. Them sharing the list prior to the deadline means the higher your current level, the more NCEPT favors you. While that definitely may be deserved, it's not "fair".
 
Random FAA priority hasn't benefited me since NCEPT started, but I'm advocating for it because random FAA priority is imposed equally on all of us. Them sharing the list prior to the deadline means the higher your current level, the more NCEPT favors you. While that definitely may be deserved, it's not "fair".
Again, if you believe it's "unfair" when everyone will have an equal chance to submit an ERR and an equal knowledge of when and how many people each facility will select, I can't help you.
 
Random FAA priority hasn't benefited me since NCEPT started, but I'm advocating for it because random FAA priority is imposed equally on all of us. Them sharing the list prior to the deadline means the higher your current level, the more NCEPT favors you. While that definitely may be deserved, it's not "fair".
Agree with @breakaway2000. Not knowing what the priority and availability will be beforehand makes ERR submission a crap shoot. It's utterly rediculous and should have never been that way. I think we just had a short discussion about this in another thread a couple weeks ago.

What you really have a problem with is the eligibility and selection criteria, and with that I am 100% with you.
 
I’d like to add my two cents to this discussion. I’ve talked to numerous facility reps and managers and they will make their selections and submit them. It seems to me that NO ONE knows who they’re going to get. I understand that maybe that person selected another place or that their facility got closed out of the selection process... etc etc. it just seems to me that the whole process could use a review.

Also, and this is my personal opinion, I think it is complete BS that someone who has not been in the agency more than 2 years gets selected over someone with 10 years in the agency, regardless of the agencies needs. I believe that they should institute a minimum of two years time on station after you certify for consideration.
 
A little off topic but anybody know how the ERRing process works for support specialists. Are they subject to deviation board?
 
Nothing defined really just not the obvious high level Tracon’s N90 etc.
I'm calling mid-level as 8-10. I know of a bunch of 5/6s that haven't released anyone.
Without verifying I'm fairly positive that ICT and OKC haven't released anyone. I don't think MSY has.
@breakaway2000 had an ncept breakdown from the inception up to December 2017. NCEPT - Statistics

Edit: I was wrong about OKC and MSY. The attached file in the linked post has a good breakdown.
 
I'm calling mid-level as 8-10. I know of a bunch of 5/6s that haven't released anyone.
Without verifying I'm fairly positive that ICT and OKC haven't released anyone. I don't think MSY has.
@breakaway2000 had an ncept breakdown from the inception up to December 2017. NCEPT - Statistics
I’ve seen the December numbers just curious where we stand now. Also wondering if this stagnation at lower to mid level facilities is an issue they are addressing? It might just be me but it seems the same facilities keep releasing while some just sit and wait with no end in sight
 
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