NCEPT debate thread

AlphaLima

Trusted Contributor
Messages
21
The easiest way to fix NCEPT is to have a time limit on being ineligible for transfer. If your facility is below cat 2, then after x many years (either total or as cpc) you should be allowed to err. This way at least there’s a light at the end of the tunnel and FAA gets a chance to throw some bodies your way.
Yeah we're seeing this now at my facility. We're 43 months into NCEPT and not a single month have we been eligible, under the old system you could at least get a 2 year release date if you could find someone to take you. Up to this point its just been devs finding out they have allergies and throwing the article 99 flag. Now we're seeing a small army of CPCs doing the same because fuck this shit. They diddnt just turn off the light at the end of the tunnel the bricked the tunnel off.

If i cant get a doctor to also sign off on it ill probably be resigning next year some time as im not going to sit somewhere i fucking hate being waiting for a theoretical chance to leave. Id rather go float on my GI Bill for a year and start trying to get back in from the outside.
 

Homsar

Trusted Contributor
Messages
155
"We decided to change how the entire NCEPT works for a single panel, without telling the hundreds of people it would affect, so it surprises them, but we're totally going to brief the next changes to everyone so there are no surprises, unlike the surprise we just did."

Wow. Speechless.

Also, they briefed the NEB on the "proposed plan," so they could "brief out their membership?" There hasn't been a SINGLE official message sent about regarding what's happening, and we're coming up to a month now since the NCEPT.

NCEPT hasn't looked at the trainees at a facility because it's not designed to do that.
 

PushingTin

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
115
Facility
ARB Ann Arbor Tower
That guy said in his campaign: "the RVP must be accountable to members. The RVP owes it to the members to stand in front of them and explain what and why he has done what he's done. And share what is coming, so that they, the members, have the ability to voice their opinions on the topics to the RVP, on the decisions that he will make while he is on the NEB. That is their right. " :confused:

 

GulfCharlie

Comrade Commissar
FAA
Messages
420
Facility
BNA Nashville Tower
On the bright side we got our 100% NATCA shirts the other day...I voted for Zilonis
Same, but hey this is what the membership wanted. Zilonis was willing to sit down and examine the NCEPT process and pull people from all different facilities to at least analyse it or hold a discussion. Instead now we have it rammed down our throats and told “trust us, it’s the best thing ever.”
 

Alpha_bravo2

Member
FAA
Messages
25
Facility
PNS Pensacola Tower
Has anyone actually reached out to a RVP to see why we weren't briefed after April 11th.
 

Homsar

Trusted Contributor
Messages
155
I’ve been told to “wait and see” by the higher ups I’ve reached out to. It’s been a long wait.
 

Homsar

Trusted Contributor
Messages
155
Finally, a somewhat "official" update on the situation. This just went out in a NWP update email, written by Joel Ortiz:

In the NCEPT panel that occurred last month, round 2 selections were not considered. This change in position was initiated by the Agency for multiple reasons. Considering the number of CPC’s (or lack thereof), since the inception of the NCEPT, there have been 1289 movements. Out of those 1289 movements, the process has produced 179 CPC’s.

NCEPT is undergoing a review for modifications. NATCA is scheduled to meet with the agency on May 14 and potentially renegotiate sections of the NCEPT MOU. The next panel will be scheduled during this meeting, and I will then send out an update with the date and summary of changes to the program.
Is that CPC total really that low? I'm on RDOs so I don't have the figures available on the NCEPT site, but that seems remarkably low.
 

echster

Trusted Contributor
Messages
72
Not sure if this is NCEPT related or not but this came from discussions between the FAA and NATCA at the NSO/NEA rep meeting this week:

"There are too many trainees at facilities and training is now being elevated to a high priority for the FAA and NATCA. The FAA will better place folks into the facilities - i.e. HR management - and find the required financing - i.e. overtime pay - to ensure trainees train instead of being used to cover day-to-day operations. The FAA and NATCA agree folks must certify at facilities if the NAS is going to be appropriately staffed."

How this impacts ERRs for the remainder of this FY is currently unknown. However, folks are starting to realize there will either be another shutdown or continuing resolution on October 1st as the budgeting process is broken.
 

PushingTin

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
115
Facility
ARB Ann Arbor Tower
Finally, a somewhat "official" update on the situation. This just went out in a NWP update email, written by Joel Ortiz:



Is that CPC total really that low? I'm on RDOs so I don't have the figures available on the NCEPT site, but that seems remarkably low.
that is hard to believe. 179 CPCs from 1289 movements? 14% ? that seems like BS. I know lots of people who transferred from high level facilities to mid levels to "go home" and checked out quick and easy, as well as newer highers who left mid levels for larger facilities (towers especially) and are done. hmmmmmm. Either way extremely poor form and 0 transparency in waiting to get to the NCEPT panel date and flipping the script.
 

FightingIrish2012

Trusted Contributor
Messages
132
179 CPCs from 1289 movements is about right, I don’t have the number of wash outs in front of me but it was something like 130-140 washed, the other 1,000 are still training. So it is a good point that they let too many people go and results are still pending, but also I would not expect the confirmed results to be that close to a 50-50 ratio for CPCs training to be unsuccessful that often.

Probably a function of bad training programs, and people taking moon shots, jumping up huge levels to hard facilities to get out in front of their coworkers to places their heart is not 100% in it.
 

MJ

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,102
lies, damn lies, and statistics
I'd wager it's 100% true, but when you give it context...

Someone selected in the first couple NCEPT panels on 2017, wait 1 year to transfer, get to facility with 1.5 yr average training time = mid 2019. Someone selected mid 2018, 3 month release, 1 yr training = late 2019... No shit they're not certified yet. It's like saying teenage pregnancy drops to zero after the age of 19.
 

Move78

Forum Sage
Messages
769
I'd wager it's 100% true, but when you give it context...

Someone selected in the first couple NCEPT panels on 2017, wait 1 year to transfer, get to facility with 1.5 yr average training time = mid 2019. Someone selected mid 2018, 3 month release, 1 yr training = late 2019... No shit they're not certified yet. It's like saying teenage pregnancy drops to zero after the age of 19.
Also seems like they're counting CPCs at new facilities. Are they counting washout fast tracks that are CPC back where they came from?
 
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