Outbound Pause

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

Local hiring from the start could have been perfect. At this point I don't think there is a perfect way to fix anything.

My rough idea: allow facilities to be staffed to 125-150% from their current staffing to that number with local hiring bids. Each person hired through a local hiring bid signs an agreement that they cannot transfer to a new facility before 5 years of being in the agency and CPC. Or cannot transfer until they CPC and put in the same amount of time at the facility that it took them to certify. Costs the FAA more money to overstaff some facilities initially but hopefully by the time those locally hired people put their time in after CPC then all the previous CPCs that had been stuck or trying to get out of that facility have moved on to where they want to be.

Some people here think it’s rocket surgery to solve/address the staffing crisis when it really isn’t

 

[32andBelow]

It’s funny all the level 5-6 tower controllers crying about paying everyone the same. They paying flight service people more than you To work 2 on 2 off in the middle of nowhere plus per diem and housing. Make the agency pay market wage to fill hard to staff facilities.

 

[Move78]

Some people here think it’s rocket surgery to solve/address the staffing crisis when it really isn’t

It’s only hard because there’s no resources. Like doing a puzzle with half the pieces. This shit would be way simple with extra staffing to go around

 

[ChuckNovember]

It’s only hard because there’s no resources. Like doing a puzzle with half the pieces. This shit would be way simple with extra staffing to go around

It would def be easier if we stopped losing trainees to resignation on the last day of OKC.

 

[Bandit117]

I heard in communism, everyone gets paid the same and in theory, it's supposed to work just fine. I think the only way we can know if paying everyone the same in atc works or not is to just do it. We have to do it the right way so it works though.

IIRC all Australian controllers get paid the same, that was at CFS years

 

[32andBelow]

Paid the same or not they gotta fix this going to the bottom of the band crap. You should never lose years of service. If you transfer to an 11 in year 10 you should go to 11 step 10 or whatever you want to call it.

 

[penaltyvectors]

Local hiring from the start could have been perfect. At this point I don't think there is a perfect way to fix anything.

My rough idea: allow facilities to be staffed to 125-150% from their current staffing to that number with local hiring bids. Each person hired through a local hiring bid signs an agreement that they cannot transfer to a new facility before 5 years of being in the agency and CPC. Or cannot transfer until they CPC and put in the same amount of time at the facility that it took them to certify. Costs the FAA more money to overstaff some facilities initially but hopefully by the time those locally hired people put their time in after CPC then all the previous CPCs that had been stuck or trying to get out of that facility have moved on to where they want to be.

I say this every time this comes up, but while it should work perfectly, the reality is that people will always scam for what they want. Remember back when we had state-specific hiring bids? Half the applicants figured out that they would get hired quicker if they selected states with more facilities, so they did that then immediately started whining about wanting to transfer back home. Even among the trainees from the N90 local bid (where you were required to live within a 50 mile radius), approximately half of them have absolutely no interest in being on the island and just coasted until failing out of the labs to get their multi-page NEST list. You want local hiring to actually work? You gotta eliminate every possibility of transferring before finishing that commitment. Wash out? Sorry, no NEST for you - you're instantly fired. Child has a debilitating illness that requires you to move closer to a doctor? Guess you gotta quit. Obviously NATCA would never agree to eliminate hardships, nor should they. But as long as those exist as a possibility, those commitments aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

 

[32andBelow]

I say this every time this comes up, but while it should work perfectly, the reality is that people will always scam for what they want. Remember back when we had state-specific hiring bids? Half the applicants figured out that they would get hired quicker if they selected states with more facilities, so they did that then immediately started whining about wanting to transfer back home. Even among the trainees from the N90 local bid (where you were required to live within a 50 mile radius), approximately half of them have absolutely no interest in being on the island and just coasted until failing out of the labs to get their multi-page NEST list. You want local hiring to actually work? You gotta eliminate every possibility of transferring before finishing that commitment. Wash out? Sorry, no NEST for you - you're instantly fired. Child has a debilitating illness that requires you to move closer to a doctor? Guess you gotta quit. Obviously NATCA would never agree to eliminate hardships, nor should they. But as long as those exist as a possibility, those commitments aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

That’s why they should treat it like any other job where you can just apply to anything you qualify for

 

[boots]

I say this every time this comes up, but while it should work perfectly, the reality is that people will always scam for what they want. Remember back when we had state-specific hiring bids? Half the applicants figured out that they would get hired quicker if they selected states with more facilities, so they did that then immediately started whining about wanting to transfer back home. Even among the trainees from the N90 local bid (where you were required to live within a 50 mile radius), approximately half of them have absolutely no interest in being on the island and just coasted until failing out of the labs to get their multi-page NEST list. You want local hiring to actually work? You gotta eliminate every possibility of transferring before finishing that commitment. Wash out? Sorry, no NEST for you - you're instantly fired. Child has a debilitating illness that requires you to move closer to a doctor? Guess you gotta quit. Obviously NATCA would never agree to eliminate hardships, nor should they. But as long as those exist as a possibility, those commitments aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

If you pass tetra I think you get 8 and belows if you decide you don’t want to do it 🤣

 

[AB19]

If you pass tetra I think you get 8 and belows if you decide you don’t want to do it 🤣

They offer 7 and below if you get between a 60-69.99

 

[BDUB]

Direct hire to facilities and by pass the academy. I think the academy taught us all a lot but also a lot of it didn’t apply to the shit hole facilities people get sent to. Most places have staff support specialists that could sit downstairs with them for a month and teach them the same thing specific to the facility…

 

[22papa]

They offer 7 and below if you get between a 60-69.99

And their score gets changed to between 60-69 if they don’t wanna go to N90 lol

 

[CoffeeIV]

I say this every time this comes up, but while it should work perfectly, the reality is that people will always scam for what they want. Remember back when we had state-specific hiring bids? Half the applicants figured out that they would get hired quicker if they selected states with more facilities, so they did that then immediately started whining about wanting to transfer back home. Even among the trainees from the N90 local bid (where you were required to live within a 50 mile radius), approximately half of them have absolutely no interest in being on the island and just coasted until failing out of the labs to get their multi-page NEST list. You want local hiring to actually work? You gotta eliminate every possibility of transferring before finishing that commitment. Wash out? Sorry, no NEST for you - you're instantly fired. Child has a debilitating illness that requires you to move closer to a doctor? Guess you gotta quit. Obviously NATCA would never agree to eliminate hardships, nor should they. But as long as those exist as a possibility, those commitments aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

Selecting a state is nice and all but it still doesn't get you where you want to be. If I want to be near PHL and get sent to AGC then whats the point? Same with all the podunk places in Texas like MAF most dont want to be at. I am relatively anti-NEST under a certain level but that's a personal belief.. You'll never stop hardships. I just think you could find people that live in some of these places and actually want to be there because that's where they grew up and their family is. That's why majority of hardships happen, to be near family for whatever reasons.

 

[32andBelow]

Direct hire to facilities and by pass the academy. I think the academy taught us all a lot but also a lot of it didn’t apply to the shit hole facilities people get sent to. Most places have staff support specialists that could sit downstairs with them for a month and teach them the same thing specific to the facility…

I agree with this. They could also just take all the academy contractor money and spread it around the facilities for more contractors with local knowledge.

 

[AB19]

Selecting a state is nice and all but it still doesn't get you where you want to be. If I want to be near PHL and get sent to AGC then whats the point? Same with all the podunk places in Texas like MAF most dont want to be at. I am relatively anti-NEST under a certain level but that's a personal belief.. You'll never stop hardships. I just think you could find people that live in some of these places and actually want to be there because that's where they grew up and their family is. That's why majority of hardships happen, to be near family for whatever reasons.

Anyone who goes to MAF should be allowed to go anywhere else after five years

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Half the applicants figured out that they would get hired quicker if they selected states with more facilities, so they did that then immediately started whining about wanting to transfer back home.

I don’t think this is correct, I was hired under that system and there were way less people back then talking about ERR or transfers. People who wanted to chase money selected NY, CA, TX as the majority of hires there went to center or high level facilities. Others chose niche states they wanted to live in, then generally stayed there.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I don’t think this is correct, I was hired under that system and there were way less people back then talking about ERR or transfers. People who wanted to chase money selected NY, CA, TX as the majority of hires there went to center or high level facilities. Others chose niche states they wanted to live in, then generally stayed there.

I feel like it is 100% correct. I’ve spoken to a lot of people who put down the states with the most facilities. When I applied it was a bid for each state that was actively hiring so I applied for all 13 that were open. I did end up turning down the first location, but looking back I regret it. Cost me almost two years of seniority etc while waiting on another facility.