Outbound Pause

[Bandit117]

Two approach controls. AZO and CLE are the exact same way. Level 8 with 50 ish people

Azo is a scam too. The take advantage of the complexity formula with 18 or so sectors. If your level 5 had 18 sectors, you would be an 8 too. And Didn’t they get downgraded back to a 7?

So your belief is to release people no matter if it puts the facility at zero CPCs. Not only that, you want the FAA to pay people move money to go staff the facility that had staffing but released too many people? Just because your belief is people should be able to move freely whenever they want?

Yes. ATC zero is the only thing that gets the FAA to act. It’s the only thing that outrages and inconveniences the Public enough to holler at congress to try to fix the problem. The faa will grind the last person into the dirt rather than admit there’s a problem.

It’s rules for radicals 101. Make your enemy abide by their own rules. The agreement tbat the FAA signed means people can be let go? Let them go. The workforce doesn’t get it both ways and neither should the FAA

 

[CoffeeIV]

Yes. ATC zero is the only thing that gets the FAA to act. It’s the only thing that outrages and inconveniences the Public enough to holler at congress to try to fix the problem. The faa will grind the last person into the dirt rather than admit there’s a problem.

It’s rules for radicals 101. Make your enemy abide by their own rules. The agreement tbat the FAA signed means people can be let go? Let them go. The workforce doesn’t get it both ways and neither should the FAA

That's not what he or I said. He's straight up saying that staffing numbers shouldn't matter and everyone should just get to transfer if they feel like it.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

If I see anyone named “Rick” on our potential ERR inbound list I am going to make sure they are #1 on the manager ranking list.

 

[Dontbotherme]

Yes. ATC zero is the only thing that gets the FAA to act. It’s the only thing that outrages and inconveniences the Public enough to holler at congress to try to fix the problem. The faa will grind the last person into the dirt rather than admit there’s a problem.

It’s rules for radicals 101. Make your enemy abide by their own rules. The agreement tbat the FAA signed means people can be let go? Let them go. The workforce doesn’t get it both ways and neither should the FAA

Correct! Jeff Vincent’s exact words when he had 8 people on a shift (when we were supposed to have 27 at A80) was, “…run it until the wheels fall off…”

 

[MJ]

Or they could pay people more to stay in place. If you can’t staff SUX at 70k per year then move the pay up. At some point people will choose to stay or attract people to come back home.

Yeah, and call it controller incentive pay.

 

[32andBelow]

They’d have 6000 controllers and 6000 trainees in the system but sure

Only because they self created this insane system. But you’d need to fix the placement system at the same time. Also just get rid of the level system. It creates so much bs. You got controllers not wanting other people to get more cus they don’t feel like their tower is good enough.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Only because they self created this insane system. But you’d need to fix the placement system at the same time. Also just get rid of the level system. It creates so much bs. You got controllers not wanting other people to get more cus they don’t feel like their tower is good enough.

They didn't create this system. That's the system YOU proposed.

Now you're proposing there are no levels to facilities? Are you fucking stupid? Not only do you think everyone should transfer with no rules. You think every facility should just be given whatever pay regardless of anything? That there is no measurement and ranking system? Just anarchy?

This is why we don't get taken seriously. Youre the reason I think controllers are stupid. So many like you that have no idea the consequences of their actions. It's even better when you said in a post that you should need a college degree for this job. Why? You obviously didn't learn jack shit and wasted your money.

 

[32andBelow]

They didn't create this system. That's the system YOU proposed.

Now you're proposing there are no levels to facilities? Are you fucking stupid? Not only do you think everyone should transfer with no rules. You think every facility should just be given whatever pay regardless of anything? That there is no measurement and ranking system? Just anarchy?

This is why we don't get taken seriously. Youre the reason I think controllers are stupid. So many like you that have no idea the consequences of their actions. It's even better when you said in a post that you should need a college degree for this job. Why? You obviously didn't learn jack shit and wasted your money.

You guys get so fugging butthurt comparing if your a 6 or a 7 or a 5. Like who cares. Pay everyone for being their to keep people safe.

I said that it seems more peuple wash out since they started hiring everyone with like zero qualifications. Which I think is true!!!!

It’s actually not madness to just have people apply for jobs that are open. That’s how almost all jobs work. Then make the managers actually do something and hire trainees locally

Let trainees swap around on their own dime like they should have done during Covid but they won’t do anything smart.

 

[SunnyATC]

Azo is a scam too. The take advantage of the complexity formula with 18 or so sectors. If your level 5 had 18 sectors, you would be an 8 too. And Didn’t they get downgraded back to a 7?


Yes. ATC zero is the only thing that gets the FAA to act. It’s the only thing that outrages and inconveniences the Public enough to holler at congress to try to fix the problem. The faa will grind the last person into the dirt rather than admit there’s a problem.

It’s rules for radicals 101. Make your enemy abide by their own rules. The agreement tbat the FAA signed means people can be let go? Let them go. The workforce doesn’t get it both ways and neither should the FAA

Are you talking about AZO or half the centers?
AZO- “Like a center but for two less levels”

 

[CoffeeIV]

You guys get so fugging butthurt comparing if your a 6 or a 7 or a 5. Like who cares. Pay everyone for being their to keep people safe.

I said that it seems more peuple wash out since they started hiring everyone with like zero qualifications. Which I think is true!!!!

It’s actually not madness to just have people apply for jobs that are open. That’s how almost all jobs work. Then make the managers actually do something and hire trainees locally

Let trainees swap around on their own dime like they should have done during Covid but they won’t do anything smart.

And this is why all your whining about NATCA is hilarious. You have no legitimate fixes to anything. You live in some fairy tale world where nothing matters and everyone should just get money with no reasoning. You cannot propose actual changes that make any sense whatsoever, you lack the ability to think. Just going to ignore you at this point, at least the Trumpers use some reasoning for their twisted logic.

 

[32andBelow]

And this is why all your whining about NATCA is hilarious. You have no legitimate fixes to anything. You live in some fairy tale world where nothing matters and everyone should just get money with no reasoning. You cannot propose actual changes that make any sense whatsoever, you lack the ability to think. Just going to ignore you at this point, at least the Trumpers use some reasoning for their twisted logic.

Free market baby. Can’t fill a job then pay more and pay people to move there. Academy jobs have move money and at the end of the contract you can go wherever and those magically all get filled.

 

[AB19]

And this is why all your whining about NATCA is hilarious. You have no legitimate fixes to anything. You live in some fairy tale world where nothing matters and everyone should just get money with no reasoning. You cannot propose actual changes that make any sense whatsoever, you lack the ability to think. Just going to ignore you at this point, at least the Trumpers use some reasoning for their twisted logic.

I mean I think UBI should be a thing but I know that isn't related to this lol

 

[Mike Kilo]

I said that it seems more peuple wash out since they started hiring everyone with like zero qualifications. Which I think is true!!!!

College doesn't show the ability to do this job.

You want people to make more money while also making them spend 20-100k on an education they don’t need. Brilliant…

 

[Move78]

Free market baby. Can’t fill a job then pay more and pay people to move there. Academy jobs have move money and at the end of the contract you can go wherever and those magically all get filled.

Clearly they can fill the jobs

The only alternative that I think will fix anything would be local hiring bids which only N90 got.

Local hiring would make such a huge difference in workforce moral. However that’s not perfect either because the time from application to certification is literally years. So how do you efficiently backfill losses?

 

[AB19]

Local hiring would make such a huge difference in workforce moral. However that’s not perfect either because the time from application to certification is literally years. So how do you efficiently backfill losses?

I don't know if using N90 as an example of time to certify is the best example of what the program could be

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Free market baby. Can’t fill a job then pay more and pay people to move there. Academy jobs have move money and at the end of the contract you can go wherever and those magically all get filled.

Pretty sure the Academy is way short on instructors and many of them are being forced to work doubles so....

 

[32andBelow]

Pretty sure the Academy is way short on instructors and many of them are being forced to work doubles so....

I’m talking about the FAA positions

Also why do we need bids? Just continuously hire.

 

[Acquired Taste]

I heard in communism, everyone gets paid the same and in theory, it's supposed to work just fine. I think the only way we can know if paying everyone the same in atc works or not is to just do it. We have to do it the right way so it works though.

 

[doodii]

I heard in communism, everyone gets paid the same and in theory, it's supposed to work just fine. I think the only way we can know if paying everyone the same in atc works or not is to just do it. We have to do it the right way so it works though.

Thank goodness we have a union that allows us to strike tee hee

 

[CoffeeIV]

Local hiring would make such a huge difference in workforce moral. However that’s not perfect either because the time from application to certification is literally years. So how do you efficiently backfill losses?

Local hiring from the start could have been perfect. At this point I don't think there is a perfect way to fix anything.

My rough idea: allow facilities to be staffed to 125-150% from their current staffing to that number with local hiring bids. Each person hired through a local hiring bid signs an agreement that they cannot transfer to a new facility before 5 years of being in the agency and CPC. Or cannot transfer until they CPC and put in the same amount of time at the facility that it took them to certify. Costs the FAA more money to overstaff some facilities initially but hopefully by the time those locally hired people put their time in after CPC then all the previous CPCs that had been stuck or trying to get out of that facility have moved on to where they want to be.