Privatisation and the Shutdown... Has your stance changed?

Maintainvfr

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261
I'd be interested to hear about the "circles" -- I really haven't felt I've gotten a clear understanding of "WHY" we want to privatize. I hear the push for it during shutdowns, but as Foogy notes, that's not a "reason" to privatize so much as it is a reason to push the legislatures/pres to get their acts together. I don't understand what actual, immediate and direct benefit it will be to us. (Noting that it "works great" elsewhere is also not a solid reason)
While I agree the union should be focusing on its members, we as the members should use situational awareness, and again I ask why WE are the only tiny group of 15K people seeking to exit the government. I mention what detriment us leaving could have on other agencies only to point it out.

If the only actual reason we are seeking privatization is these shutdowns (and given that it's brought up pretty much only during shutdowns, that's what I'm led to believe)--- I feel our membership is willing to take on way too much risk for a seemingly hidden reward.



This makes sense. So who are these people who voted? Where are they hiding? You're here, a couple others. That's it?
It's all in the election threads if you wanna go read through them. This website is a phenomenal resource, it is especially useful for those looking to get hired or transfer. That being said, it's not like it helps us do our job better or we're required to use it. Most controllers don't, it doesn't mean they're hiding it means they're doing something else
 

Chief08

Lurker
Messages
4
The entire DoD is immune to shutdown. It wasn’t always. They made it exist a few years ago. It wouldn’t be hard to do that for other aspects of the gov as well.
This is 100% completely FALSE!!! The ENTIRE DoD is effected by GOV shutdown just like FAA is. DoD employee's recognized in their 201 file as "mission essential" (just like ATC's) are required to report to work as usual. Conduct business as usual and are not paid until the shutdown is over. DoD mission essential employees are EXACTLY like ATCs and non mission essential DoD employees stay home and still get paid (back pay) with no charge to leave just like everybody else in the GOV. The DoD is funded in the exact same Appropriations Bill or the Continuing Resolution Authority (CRA) as the FAA and therefor funding is identical.

With regard to a mind change on Privatization - I'm thrilled the vast majority on here are still and remain against it - your smart!! Any ATC who supports privatization needs to educate their selves in ATC's which are privatized such as in the DoD over seas. You can go work for DynCorp, KBR, Halliburton, Man Tech, BAE Systems, Flour, etc... Look into their working conditions, their pay, their job security (especially pay attention to their job security, which is non-existent). You want to discuss safe, secure, steady job, you already have it! Go private and see how easy it becomes to reduce and change conditions, change requirements, etc... and retirement. I promise you its NOT Special Category GOV retirement!! Its more like a standard 401K with social security at age 68 and no medical. Its NOT - GOV pension, with social security off set, and TSP (which was GOV matched 5%) and includes your current medical insurance until Medicare kicks in.

Never forget when your received your TOL how you felt. You won the lottery!! You have a job almost nobody can get with, job security, training, advancement and benefits everybody wants. Be careful what you wish for - you might just get it. Privatization - Absolutely NOT!! But as I said above, truly educate yourself before you decide. Talk to ATC's who are privatized and then make an educated decision, not one based on rumors, what you heard from "someone else" or based on emotion like now, when you had to wait for pay (which was never in question weather it was coming or not).
 

MJ

Administrator
Staff member
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2,053
This is 100% completely FALSE!!! The ENTIRE DoD is effected by GOV shutdown just like FAA is. DoD employee's recognized in their 201 file as "mission essential" (just like ATC's) are required to report to work as usual. Conduct business as usual and are not paid until the shutdown is over. DoD mission essential employees are EXACTLY like ATCs and non mission essential DoD employees stay home and still get paid (back pay) with no charge to leave just like everybody else in the GOV. The DoD is funded in the exact same Appropriations Bill or the Continuing Resolution Authority (CRA) as the FAA and therefor funding is identical.
No, it's not.
 

170tovocus

Trusted Contributor
Messages
34
No, it's not.
To be clear - are you saying DOD is NOT affected by shutdowns? Because that's incorrect. The DOD is absolutely affected by shutdowns, as shown in this document from 2013. In recent history, though, Congress has wised up to the fact that not paying the military would be political suicide and passed laws to ensure they were paid during a shutdown, but the DOD itself would absolutely be "shut down" in the same way that the FAA is "shut down" even when many of us are required to show up.

In this most recent shutdown, the DOD along with many other departments was already funded and therefore unaffected, but that won't necessarily be true in the future.
 

MJ

Administrator
Staff member
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2,053
In this most recent shutdown, the DOD along with many other departments was already funded and therefore unaffected,
The claim was DoD and FAA are the same. Same funding, same furloughs, yada yada yada. The above sentence supports why that claim is wrong. No one was furloughed or missed pay in the DoD.
 

ATC_av8er

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Messages
80

DankVectorz

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Speaking of DiFazio...


As good as this is for us, they’re only doing it so we can’t do anything that might end a shutdown early in case they want to pull the same shit
 

Nhstadt

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FAA
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ADS Addison Tower
As good as this is for us, they’re only doing it so we can’t do anything that might end a shutdown early in case they want to pull the same shit
That's fine some other workforce can be a sacrificial lamb I'm cool with that.
 

Nhstadt

Trusted Contributor
FAA
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ADS Addison Tower
That's not a good attitude to have about this.
Let me rephrase....shutdowns are retarded. I don't think they should be a thing, I'm not cool with shutdowns,and everyone should be payed for the work they do in a timely manner.

I don't think it should fall to controllers to make sure the government runs properly or to be the face of the at risk public servant not being paid.
 

ATCJoe85

Trusted Contributor
Messages
41
Let me rephrase....shutdowns are retarded. I don't think they should be a thing, I'm not cool with shutdowns,and everyone should be payed for the work they do in a timely manner.

I don't think it should fall to controllers to make sure the government runs properly or to be the face of the at risk public servant not being paid.
+1
Yes, this would reduce the pressure for politicians to get their act together. But I too am less concerned about other agencies. Should we be concerned beyond the requisite compassion deserved to all those not being paid/paid on time? I only ask because for whatever the heck reason WE are pressing to get out of the government. I don't see other agencies chomping at the bits to do the same.

Of course my stance is based on the belief that long term, privitizing will screw us harder than even a few months of delayed pay.

All that said, I don't know why they don't aim to pay ALL feds during shutdowns. My understanding is there are proposals to do just that.
 

Robertb

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Brothers and Sisters,

Today, House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Peter DeFazio (Ore.) and Aviation Subcommittee Chairman Rick Larsen (Wash.) introduced a bill - The Aviation Funding Stability Act of 2019 (H.R. 1108) - that would authorize the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to continue to draw from the Airport and Airway Trust Fund (AATF) during a government shutdown. NATCA worked closely with the Chairman and his staff as they developed the bill and it meets our Four Core Principles for Reform.

NATCA reviewed every word and detail of the bill, and after extremely careful review, consideration, and deliberation, we have decided to give it our strong support.

For years, our Union has been focused on providing a stable, predictable funding stream to operate and improve the National Airspace System (NAS). To get NATCA's support, any ATC reform legislation must, at a minimum, meet our Four Core Principles:
  • Protect the men and women who ensure the safety and efficiency of the NAS in their employment relationship, including their rights and benefits;
  • Maintain safety and efficiency as the top priorities;
  • Provide a stable, predictable funding stream that adequately supports air traffic control services, staffing, hiring and training, long-term modernization, preventative maintenance, and ongoing modernization of the physical infrastructure; and
  • Ensure continued service to all segments of our nation's diverse aviation community.
This bill would ensure that our FAA-employed members would never again have to work without pay or be furloughed due to a government shutdown. It would also ensure that our Federal Contract Tower-employed members would never face the risk of layoff or facility closure during a government shutdown.

It would ensure that the FAA could continue to meet its mission by maintaining the safety and efficiency of the NAS during a government shutdown. All projects, programs, and activities that were previously funded would continue to be funded out of the AATF, until a new appropriations bill or a continuing resolution is signed into law. This would prevent future government shutdowns from forcing FAA to furlough aviation safety professionals, reducing the safety of the system. It would also prevent government shutdowns from delaying the implementation of critical safety programs.

The proposal would ensure a stable, predicable funding stream for the FAA. All four of FAA's budget lines are protected: operations (Ops); facilities and equipment (F&E); research, engineering and development (RE&D); and grants-in-aid to airports (AIP). The FAA would not have to stop hiring nor would it suspend training.

The bill would protect our dynamic aviation system that provides services to all segments of the aviation community, from commercial passenger carriers and cargo haulers to business jets and to general aviation, and from the major airports to those in small communities and rural America. It would also ensure that a government shutdown would not affect the integration of new users into the NAS.

We applaud the hard work that the Committee has done to develop this proposal.

Today is only the beginning stage of a legislative process with many steps. As you all know, the language in proposed legislation is often changed or amended throughout the legislative process. We will vigorously support this legislation and work to ensure that any proposed changes continue to meet our core principles.
Please be aware that this legislation wouldn't become law in time to protect our members and the NAS in the event of another shutdown should the current three-week continuing resolution expire on Feb. 15 without new funding in place. NATCA continues to lobby Congress and the Administration to prevent another shutdown. We will keep you informed on all developments as the discussion progresses.

In Solidarity,

The National Executive Board
 
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