Shoot The Breeze 3.0

[BDUB]

Everybody should be paying attention at how the UK & Australia are handling COVID and treating their citizens like absolute garbage. It’s all in the name of “public health”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440770631671300106

The agency is already hurting for controllers, undermanned towers, people will be over worked in the future. Have fun with that


PV has been better at reporting than firemen and “fact checkers” (who started before 2004) bullshit. Zamisdat all the waaaaay

Hurting for controllers but have 15k applicants every go around for new hires lol they’d recover just fine. Especially when they start offering joe at McDonald’s 100k. There’s always someone willing to take your spot in this country. Always. ??‍♂️

 

[Phillytroll69]

Hurting for controllers but have 15k applicants every go around for new hires lol they’d recover just fine. Especially when they start offering joe at McDonald’s 100k. There’s always someone willing to take your spot in this country. Always. ??‍♂️

you realize if joe at mcdonald's starts making 100k,
next contract negotiation I'd expect a big bump in our job. Like how inflation usually works.

 

[Motodog]

you realize if joe at mcdonald's starts making 100k,
next contract negotiation I'd expect a big bump in our job. Like how inflation usually works.

Ha, good one. Kinda like current runaway inflation translates into same as big tax increase on middle class

 

[BDUB]

you realize if joe at mcdonald's starts making 100k,
next contract negotiation I'd expect a big bump in our job. Like how inflation usually works.

It was more a reference to joe at McDonald’s being offered a job in the agency because he’s willing to comply with what the FAA tells him to do that some are not willing to do ??‍♂️

 

[32andBelow]

you realize if joe at mcdonald's starts making 100k,
next contract negotiation I'd expect a big bump in our job. Like how inflation usually works.

The fun part is they don’t negotiate our salary anymore cus it’s too good already!!!!

 

[ZappBand69]

It would be stupid either way!

The regret will hit peak levels in the future, when those that lose their job over this cross their would be retirement dates, and realize what "standing my ground" over this silly bullshit costed them.

I have thought about this, first some reality:

Either side could be wrong about the vax/vax mandate.

That said: I could be an old man, lying in my rented trailer, knowing that I was wrong about the vax mandate and I threw a career away. I take another swig of my pbr and look back at how I never found success after my "glory" days of pushing aluminum. You know what? I know that is a possible outcome and I am okay with it (swap shitty pbr for something else though). I would always know that I stood up against one of the largest, most personal, power grabs that the USA ever tried to do. And I would be happy with that. For those that don't want it: Career or personal freedom? I've written a lot on this thread about the topic already, I don't want to repeat myself. It's not silly to me.

The great COVID mandate/vax debate. I see a parallel in history to this, and this is about people's attitude towards one another:
Lets imagine a land in the 1930s/1940s

People that get the VAX because they're told to, and keep their heads down..... Let's call them "good Germans".

People that enforce the mandate because it's "just their job"..... Let's call them the Wehrmacht.

Then there are those who really really hate the other side, in fact, they wish evil on some of their fellow members on mankind. They keep their death-head cap polished and they crack open the next can of cyanide with a smile.... lets call them 33andAbove!

Lastly there are people that just want to be left alone, but the other side won't allow it. Let's call them _ _ _ _ _

The attitudes I see are sickening. I want the other controllers to be happy with their lives, and some of them just don't want me to exist. I might talk to you everyday; 32andSteady, you might hear me on the shoutline and think, "yeah I like when ZB's working". I might think the same about you.

 

[32andBelow]

I have thought about this, first some reality:

Either side could be wrong about the vax/vax mandate.

That said: I could be an old man, lying in my rented trailer, knowing that I was wrong about the vax mandate and I threw a career away. I take another swing of my pbr and look back at how I never found success after my "glory" days of pushing aluminum. You know what? I know that is a possible outcome and I am okay with it (swap shitty pbr for something else though). I would always know that I stood up against one of the largest, most personal, power grabs that the USA ever tried to do. And I would be happy with that. For those that don't want it: Career or personal freedom? I've written a lot on this thread about the topic already, I don't want to repeat myself. It's not silly to me.

No either side isn’t gonna be wrong about the vax mandate. The vaccine isn’t even in your body anymore after 3 weeks

 

[ZappBand69]

No either side isn’t gonna be wrong about the vax mandate. The vaccine isn’t even in your body anymore after 3 weeks

Well we can only let time determine that. Tell you what, I'll be part of the control group. I'm doing it for science. Edit for your edit- never heard about the 3 week thing so I can’t speak of it. Let me search the web so someone can tell me what to think

 

[N90-EWR]

I have thought about this, first some reality:

Either side could be wrong about the vax/vax mandate.

That said: I could be an old man, lying in my rented trailer, knowing that I was wrong about the vax mandate and I threw a career away. I take another swing of my pbr and look back at how I never found success after my "glory" days of pushing aluminum. You know what? I know that is a possible outcome and I am okay with it (swap shitty pbr for something else though). I would always know that I stood up against one of the largest, most personal, power grabs that the USA ever tried to do. And I would be happy with that. For those that don't want it: Career or personal freedom? I've written a lot on this thread about the topic already, I don't want to repeat myself. It's not silly to me.

The thing is, in the end nobody gives a damn about it. This whole "I stood my ground for my personal freedom" gesturing and posturing will feel very hollow, and the regret will be there lingering for the rest of your life. How do I know? Because I've witnessed it before. Not sure if you ever heard of the "N90 11", but to make a long story short, back during the white book days, the agency fired 11 controllers at N90 for checking the wrong box in their annual medical forms. It was a union busting bullshit move, but whatever, fast forward to the important part, and all 11 gained their jobs back when the case went to the arbitrator. Now, one of the 11, who happened to be a good friend of mine, after getting his job back he decided to "stick it to them" by quitting, and opening up a tile business. At that point he had about 16 years in. We tried and tried to talk him out of it, but to no avail. He was convinced he would never regret it. Fast forward again another decade, and all of us that got hired together with him started to retire, while he struggled from one failed business to another, his wife left him, and had all kinds of health issues (and no insurance). Last I heard of him, he's still trying to get rehired to try patch together another 4 years for a minimum 20 year retirement, but (surprise), the FAA doesn't want to hire a washed up 50 something controller, so.....think about it very carefully, because the only one you'll stick it to is yourself.

 

[32andBelow]

Well we can only let time determine that. Tell you what, I'll be part of the control group. I'm doing it for science.

right the experts that created it know nothing. They have no idea what’s in it. They just found it in a mine.

The United States and all modern countries have decades of vaccine mandates. Your comparison to Nazi Germany is ridiculous

 

[ZappBand69]

right the experts that created it know nothing. They have no idea what’s in it. They just found it in a mine.

The United States and all modern countries have decades of vaccine mandates. Your comparison to Nazi Germany is ridiculous

I don't think the experts (that created the thing) acted nefariously in any way.

How many vaccines/medicines have been pulled from the market, YEARS after being used, because something turned out bad? Fortunately not many, but there are some, and this COVID vax was FAST.

I will likely get the vaccine someday, but I want to see long term results (posted about this previously). The FAA needs to give me more time!

Name another vax that the US government said "get it or you can't have a job" because that is what they are pushing.

Is my comparison really ridiculous? Look at what people/the news are saying about the unvaxxed! Because the puppet-masters have went so extreme/hard in their rhetoric, both sides are digging in! Critical thinking and empathy are DEAD in the USA.

 

[N90-EWR]

I don't think the experts (that created the thing) acted nefariously in any way.

How many vaccines/medicines have been pulled from the market, YEARS after being used, because something turned out bad? Fortunately not many, but there are some, and this COVID vax was FAST.

I will likely get the vaccine someday, but I want to see long term results (posted about this previously). The FAA needs to give me more time!

Name another vax that the US government said "get it or you can't have a job" because that is what they are pushing.

By the way, is not that I don't understand your position. I do! I just feel this is not the hill to die on. If you really want to stick it to the government, the best possible way I know is retire as soon as you can, live another 40 years or so while enjoying true freedom (getting paid), and right towards the end, go get married to a 20 something pretty girl, get her max survivor benefit, and die happy knowing the government will keep on paying her on your behalf for a very long time after you're gone.

 

[ZappBand69]

The thing is, in the end nobody gives a damn about it. This whole "I stood my ground for my personal freedom" gesturing and posturing will feel very hollow, and the regret will be there lingering for the rest of your life. How do I know? Because I've witnessed it before. Not sure if you ever heard of the "N90 11", but to make a long story short, back during the white book days, the agency fired 11 controllers at N90 for checking the wrong box in their annual medical forms. It was a union busting bullshit move, but whatever, fast forward to the important part, and all 11 gained their jobs back when the case went to the arbitrator. Now, one of the 11, who happened to be a good friend of mine, after getting his job back he decided to "stick it to them" by quitting, and opening up a tile business. At that point he had about 16 years in. We tried and tried to talk him out of it, but to no avail. He was convinced he would never regret it. Fast forward again another decade, and all of us that got hired together with him started to retire, while he struggled from one failed business to another, his wife left him, and had all kinds of health issues (and no insurance). Last I heard of him, he's still trying to get rehired to try patch together another 4 years for a minimum 20 year retirement, but (surprise), the FAA doesn't want to hire a washed up 50 something controller, so.....think about it very carefully, because the only one you'll stick it to is yourself.

Never heard about it, but man that sounds like BS (as for why they were fired-not your post)! Sad for that guy, and pity the agency ruined/pissed off such talent as I'm sure the guy was. Serious about that, I don't know if I could cut it there.

I appreciate your post, there is truth and a lesson in it. The only thing I would like to point out, to give you my perspective is: That guy was fired for BS reasons, was rehired. That guy was still pissed (rightfully so) about getting canned for filling out a form wrong.

The guy made a stand about mgmt BS, vs me making a stand against getting something unwanted injected inside me. It is a different fight.

I believe the story, and there is truth in your post. To the controllers making a stand: Are you prepared to be the "tile guy"? Lots to think about.

Unlike the tile guy I have no other skill to fall back upon. All I've got is the fact that I'm really, really, good looking.

By the way, is not that I don't understand your position. I do! I just feel this is not the hill to die on. If you really want to stick it to the government, the best possible way I know is retire as soon as you can, live another 40 years or so while enjoying true freedom (getting paid), and right towards the end, go get married to a 20 something pretty girl, get her max survivor benefit, and die happy knowing the government will keep on paying her on your behalf for a very long time after you're gone.

This whole thing has made me re-look at finances, and re-look at how daddy gov treats it's people! Earlier this year, I was a "I'll work till 56, make money and build the pension". Now I am I retire-the-second-I'm-eligible guy!

I don't know you but I've met a few of you guys at that facility. Based on your post starting after "retire as soon as you can", I 1000% know you work at N90!

 

[N90-EWR]

This whole thing has made me re-look at finances, and re-look at how daddy gov treats it's people! Earlier this year, I was a "I'll work till 56, make money and build the pension". Now I am I retire-the-second-I'm-eligible guy!

I don't know you but I've met a few of you guys at that facility. Based on your post starting after "retire as soon as you can", I 1000% know you work at N90!

I retired at age 52 while I was at the federal salary cap and grossing well over 300k a year. I left a lot of money on the table by not going to 57 (at N90 extensions past 56 are not hard to get, specially for EWR guys). Had I done that, my pension would be about 10.5k monthly give or take. I'm only getting 6.7k a month because of my decision, but I have not regretted it for one second going early. Only reason I didn't go at 50 was my daughter attending a very expensive school was a sophomore when I turned 50. I put in my papers the week before her graduation ceremony, and been loving life ever since.

 

[32andBelow]

I don't think the experts (that created the thing) acted nefariously in any way.

How many vaccines/medicines have been pulled from the market, YEARS after being used, because something turned out bad? Fortunately not many, but there are some, and this COVID vax was FAST.

I will likely get the vaccine someday, but I want to see long term results (posted about this previously). The FAA needs to give me more time!

Name another vax that the US government said "get it or you can't have a job" because that is what they are pushing.

Is my comparison really ridiculous? Look at what people/the news are saying about the unvaxxed! Because the puppet-masters have went so extreme/hard in their rhetoric, both sides are digging in! Critical thinking and empathy are DEAD in the USA.

We aren’t usually in a worldwide pandemic. Vaccines have been mandated for kids forever tho. Same concept but they need to get it for people that are out of school too.

 

[StealthChain]

Hurting for controllers but have 15k applicants every go around for new hires lol they’d recover just fine. Especially when they start offering joe at McDonald’s 100k. There’s always someone willing to take your spot in this country. Always. ??‍♂️

It was more a reference to joe at McDonald’s being offered a job in the agency because he’s willing to comply with what the FAA tells him to do that some are not willing to do ??‍♂️

Just because people apply doesn’t mean they are qualified. Or else there wouldn’t have been a staffing issue prior to all this covid shit. And hiring a bunch of “yes (wo)men” seems like a real easy way to lose anything worth a shit in the contract.

 

[32andBelow]

Just because people apply doesn’t mean they are qualified. Or else there wouldn’t have been a staffing issue prior to all this covid shit. And hiring a bunch of “yes (wo)men” seems like a real easy way to lose anything worth a shit in the contract.

The staffing issue is a training failure not an applicant amount failure

 

[StealthChain]

The staffing issue is a training failure not an applicant amount failure

Again, just because people apply doesn’t mean they are qualified. There is a reason out of 15k applicants much fewer are hired to even go to the academy to fail training.

 

[BDUB]

Again, just because people apply doesn’t mean they are qualified. There is a reason out of 15k applicants much fewer are hired to even go to the academy to fail training.

If half the workforce walked away right now there’d be a shortage for a few years until it rebounds. Already happened once in our history and there’s zero difference today. So if 5% of our agency refuses the vaccine it won’t be hard to replace them…

 

[32andBelow]

Again, just because people apply doesn’t mean they are qualified. There is a reason out of 15k applicants much fewer are hired to even go to the academy to fail training.

It takes years and years and years to get through facility training programs. The faa has zero urgency to expedite this. There’s absolutely no reason to hire more people if the faa doesn’t even hire enough instructors to train them