Shoot The Breeze

[JTL2ATC]

When it comes to student loan debt, I think the best compromise would be to make all student loans 0% interest while attending full time, and once graduated. If you drop out or skip more than one full semester (spring/fall), your loans accrue interest at no greater than something like 3%.
Student loans shouldn’t be a money maker for the government. Education should be encouraged, but free doesn’t incentivize anyone to actually learn.

 

[32andBelow]

Letting the government run education now works great for....? And we already discussed why government-run healthcare isnt any better in Canada, and the reason healthcare in the US is so expensive is because of government regulation. I'm done having cyclical conversations.

There’s are plenty of great state run universities.

 

[ATCJoe85]

My biggest issue with the notion of subsidized college/healthcare, is that we all know who pays for it and who doesn't. It's not the rich, it's not the poor, it's those of us peddling out 6 day workweeks and stressing out of our minds. If the 1% didn't already control all the lawmakers, then we might have a fighting chance, and I may easily be convinced to go down the socialist rabbit hole. But instead, you either pick Republican and they take from the middle to give to the rich, or you pick Democrat and they take from the middle to give to the poor. Or if like me you pick a decent, intelligent, rational human being who isn't affiliated with the giants and wasn't even F'ing allowed at the debate, then you get laughed out of the room. Far be it for me to be the one to convince a couple hundred million people to vote for someone based on who they are instead of based on which party they're part of. Again, the 1% have successfully manipulated everyone into thinking that one party or the other is going to be good for the country.

As to the whole "work harder" thing, I think we face a fine line wherein as long as you are personally working to improve your situation, then protesting your conditions is reasonable. I think that there are far too many who protest thinking it'll change things for them vs those of us who already have plenty but protest for the sake of others. I.E, be accountable for your situation as much as humanly possible... THEN protest. You're far more likely to end up an ATCS making 100K+ than you are to be able to convince politicians to give you more.

 

[32andBelow]

My biggest issue with the notion of subsidized college/healthcare, is that we all know who pays for it and who doesn't. It's not the rich, it's not the poor, it's those of us peddling out 6 day workweeks and stressing out of our minds. If the 1% didn't already control all the lawmakers, then we might have a fighting chance, and I may easily be convinced to go down the socialist rabbit hole. But instead, you either pick Republican and they take from the middle to give to the rich, or you pick Democrat and they take from the middle to give to the poor. Or if like me you pick a decent, intelligent, rational human being who isn't affiliated with the giants and wasn't even F'ing allowed at the debate, then you get laughed out of the room. Far be it for me to be the one to convince a couple hundred million people to vote for someone based on who they are instead of based on which party they're part of. Again, the 1% have successfully manipulated everyone into thinking that one party or the other is going to be good for the country.

As to the whole "work harder" thing, I think we face a fine line wherein as long as you are personally working to improve your situation, then protesting your conditions is reasonable. I think that there are far too many who protest thinking it'll change things for them vs those of us who already have plenty but protest for the sake of others. I.E, be accountable for your situation as much as humanly possible... THEN protest. You're far more likely to end up an ATCS making 100K+ than you are to be able to convince politicians to give you more.

What the 1% wants would literally be irrelevant if we voted for our (the middle class) best interests. The republicans latch on to these crazy social issues to get middle America to vote them in where they can fuck up the tax structure and subsidize themselves

 

[WavesAndClouds]

What the 1% wants would literally be irrelevant if we voted for our (the middle class) best interests. The republicans latch on to these crazy social issues to get middle America to vote them in where they can fuck up the tax structure and subsidize themselves

Thats why Pelosi and Chuck wants to bring back the unlimited Salt Deductions...... aka tax breaks for wealthier americans in their party's states. Seems like a sound argument. Every argument you make is my side is amazing and the other side is irredeemable. Such an intellectually tired argument. The current tax code has been carved out by both sides. Donald Trump has used the same tax code since back when he was a democrat.

 

[Phillytroll69]

My biggest issue with the notion of subsidized college/healthcare, is that we all know who pays for it and who doesn't. It's not the rich, it's not the poor, it's those of us peddling out 6 day workweeks and stressing out of our minds. If the 1% didn't already control all the lawmakers, then we might have a fighting chance, and I may easily be convinced to go down the socialist rabbit hole. But instead, you either pick Republican and they take from the middle to give to the rich, or you pick Democrat and they take from the middle to give to the poor. Or if like me you pick a decent, intelligent, rational human being who isn't affiliated with the giants and wasn't even F'ing allowed at the debate, then you get laughed out of the room. Far be it for me to be the one to convince a couple hundred million people to vote for someone based on who they are instead of based on which party they're part of. Again, the 1% have successfully manipulated everyone into thinking that one party or the other is going to be good for the country.

As to the whole "work harder" thing, I think we face a fine line wherein as long as you are personally working to improve your situation, then protesting your conditions is reasonable. I think that there are far too many who protest thinking it'll change things for them vs those of us who already have plenty but protest for the sake of others. I.E, be accountable for your situation as much as humanly possible... THEN protest. You're far more likely to end up an ATCS making 100K+ than you are to be able to convince politicians to give you more.

We are already a socialist republic-
Taxes for- school, roads, police, military. All socialist.

Car maker/bank/mortgage bailouts-all socialist

Farm/product subsidies- all socialist

I agree with you on some points-like let's eradicate osha and labor laws-surely companies won't use child labor (except they already did) and dump poison and trash into water supplies (oh wait they already did). Some of that socialist government oversight we pay for really comes in handy huh?
As for the rich loophes that's horse shit- the rich are at there lowest tax bracket ever. Retards out here screaming about a 7% tax increase (to 28%) AFTER your 400,000 dollar made.
(that rate was 91%) in the 1950s by the way.

IMAGINE growing up in a time of fair wages and strong unions, getting cheap college on a liveable wage-only to elect and vote for union busting, tax breaks, etc. The people born in the 60s and 70s might as well be boomers.

There's a meme for this let me find it

 

[TimShady]

When it comes to student loan debt, I think the best compromise would be to make all student loans 0% interest while attending full time, and once graduated. If you drop out or skip more than one full semester (spring/fall), your loans accrue interest at no greater than something like 3%.
Student loans shouldn’t be a money maker for the government. Education should be encouraged, but free doesn’t incentivize anyone to actually learn.

Have you ever considered maybe the cost of college has skyrocketed the way it has is precisely because of how easy it is for students to get these government backed loans? Schools can charge what they want because there’s a seemingly endless supply of money the students have access to. They are competing to attract new students and aren’t afraid to spend whatever it takes because they know they can raise tuition if necessary. Let’s be honest, when an 18 year old is shopping for schools, is cost the number one consideration, or even near the top? It doesn’t have to be when loans are so readily available, and to an immature 18 year old they have the rest of their lives to worry about that part.

This is what happens when you try to mix the free market with government subsidies. It means well but the results are often unintended. I don’t have a problem with taxes that allow kids to go to community college for free or even state schools if the state wants to do that, but why is the federal government guaranteeing loans for people to go to ridiculously priced private schools to study whatever they want (even if there’s little to no potential ROI) and they don’t even have to graduate? Is that wise?

 

[32andBelow]

I hope after this election the republicans party starts accepting science. That is a total non starter for me ever voting for a Republican if they are saying things like global warming is fake. Or corona virus is not as bad as the flu

 

[Shikaka]

My biggest issue with the notion of subsidized college/healthcare, is that we all know who pays for it and who doesn't. It's not the rich, it's not the poor, it's those of us peddling out 6 day workweeks and stressing out of our minds. If the 1% didn't already control all the lawmakers, then we might have a fighting chance, and I may easily be convinced to go down the socialist rabbit hole. But instead, you either pick Republican and they take from the middle to give to the rich, or you pick Democrat and they take from the middle to give to the poor. Or if like me you pick a decent, intelligent, rational human being who isn't affiliated with the giants and wasn't even F'ing allowed at the debate, then you get laughed out of the room. Far be it for me to be the one to convince a couple hundred million people to vote for someone based on who they are instead of based on which party they're part of. Again, the 1% have successfully manipulated everyone into thinking that one party or the other is going to be good for the country.

As to the whole "work harder" thing, I think we face a fine line wherein as long as you are personally working to improve your situation, then protesting your conditions is reasonable. I think that there are far too many who protest thinking it'll change things for them vs those of us who already have plenty but protest for the sake of others. I.E, be accountable for your situation as much as humanly possible... THEN protest. You're far more likely to end up an ATCS making 100K+ than you are to be able to convince politicians to give you more.

BuT yOu'Re WaStInG yOuR vOtE

We are already a socialist republic-
Taxes for- school, roads, police, military. All socialist.

Car maker/bank/mortgage bailouts-all socialist

Farm/product subsidies- all socialist

I agree with you on some points-like let's eradicate osha and labor laws-surely companies won't use child labor (except they already did) and dump poison and trash into water supplies (oh wait they already did). Some of that socialist government oversight we pay for really comes in handy huh?
As for the rich loophes that's horse shit- the rich are at there lowest tax bracket ever. Retards out here screaming about a 7% tax increase (to 28%) AFTER your 400,000 dollar made.
(that rate was 91%) in the 1950s by the way.

IMAGINE growing up in a time of fair wages and strong unions, getting cheap college on a liveable wage-only to elect and vote for union busting, tax breaks, etc. The people born in the 60s and 70s might as well be boomers.

There's a meme for this let me find it

Any increase in tax rates won't increase tax revenues. Look up the tax revenue adjusted for inflation from the 1930s to now...it's fairly stable, not much changes despite the 95% and 70% brackets being significantly lowered. Rich people have good CPAs, and even better lawyers, and won't get audited.

So when a politician says they'll make the rich pay, they're lying out there teeth and pandering for your vote. As history proves.

 

[32andBelow]

Also wtf is the senate doing. Why are they just a wing of the executive branch now? They just stopped working on their own reasonable bills. Yes the house bill might be 2.2. Well pass one that’s 1.5 and negotiate it.

 

[CF]

We are already a socialist republic-
Taxes for- school, roads, police, military. All socialist.

Car maker/bank/mortgage bailouts-all socialist

Farm/product subsidies- all socialist

I agree with you on some points-like let's eradicate osha and labor laws-surely companies won't use child labor (except they already did) and dump poison and trash into water supplies (oh wait they already did). Some of that socialist government oversight we pay for really comes in handy huh?
As for the rich loophes that's horse shit- the rich are at there lowest tax bracket ever. Retards out here screaming about a 7% tax increase (to 28%) AFTER your 400,000 dollar made.
(that rate was 91%) in the 1950s by the way.

IMAGINE growing up in a time of fair wages and strong unions, getting cheap college on a liveable wage-only to elect and vote for union busting, tax breaks, etc. The people born in the 60s and 70s might as well be boomers.

There's a meme for this let me find it

19 years and we’re still there. We could have paid for all of 32s policy goals and then some if we didn’t spend all that money blowing up tents and holes in the ground.

 

[BigEggplant]

Thats why Pelosi and Chuck wants to bring back the unlimited Salt Deductions...... aka tax breaks for wealthier americans in their party's states. Seems like a sound argument. Every argument you make is my side is amazing and the other side is irredeemable. Such an intellectually tired argument. The current tax code has been carved out by both sides. Donald Trump has used the same tax code since back when he was a democrat.

I’m only ATC12 wealthy, but my SALT is about 19k a year and I can only deduct 10 of that now. My understanding is it was deductible so that you’re not being taxed on income by two different entities. The SALT cap was literally to take away from upper middle class people in liberal high-tax states and give it to corporations.

And before anyone jumps on the wealth term, anyone making over 2x the median household income in this country is wealthy.

Have you ever considered maybe the cost of college has skyrocketed the way it has is precisely because of how easy it is for students to get these government backed loans? Schools can charge what they want because there’s a seemingly endless supply of money the students have access to. They are competing to attract new students and aren’t afraid to spend whatever it takes because they know they can raise tuition if necessary. Let’s be honest, when an 18 year old is shopping for schools, is cost the number one consideration, or even near the top? It doesn’t have to be when loans are so readily available, and to an immature 18 year old they have the rest of their lives to worry about that part.

This is what happens when you try to mix the free market with government subsidies. It means well but the results are often unintended. I don’t have a problem with taxes that allow kids to go to community college for free or even state schools if the state wants to do that, but why is the federal government guaranteeing loans for people to go to ridiculously priced private schools to study whatever they want (even if there’s little to no potential ROI) and they don’t even have to graduate? Is that wise?

College is a business, why else would the most “rigorous, selective“ institutions have a near 100% acceptance rate for veterans? Uncle Sugar is gonna pay the rack rate is why.

 

[--]

Anyone quitting the Union in January or hearing of others thinking about it? A handful of ppl have told me they're out due to the BLM affiliation

 

[Phillytroll69]

College is a business, why else would the most “rigorous, selective“ institutions have a near 100% acceptance rate for veterans? Uncle Sugar is gonna pay the rack rate is why.

Wait, PRIVATE COLLEGES CHARGED GOVT TOP TIER DOLLARS?
Wait, PRIVATE BANKS LIED TO THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT LOANS THEY WERE UNDERWRITING

I'd be cool paying more or less taxes I'm just sick of the socialism argument from the right-while right wing senators take farm subsidy money and bail out these corporations.

Also if you are fiscally conservative, gun loving, anti abortion or whatever I can at least understand your argument.

Gets a little shiesty when trump voters get into q

Anyone quitting the Union in January or hearing of others thinking about it? A handful of ppl have told me they're out due to the BLM affiliation

Start a 32LM and out your 1.5% there

 

[CF]

Anyone quitting the Union in January or hearing of others thinking about it? A handful of ppl have told me they're out due to the BLM affiliation

 

[Shikaka]

The anti-socialislm arguement is a remnant of the cold-war era. It's also antiproductive.

 

[Phillyman2633]

What the 1% wants would literally be irrelevant if we voted for our (the middle class) best interests.

But everything you have said up to this point is literally not in your (middle class) best interest. You're championing these social causes that make you feel better but would not benefit you in any fasion.

If you want to vote left for gay marriage and pro-choice rights then I would agree, but dont pretend like government-run social programs wont directly affect your bottom line as an FAA Z-level employee that will be making over $150k eventually.

 

[rhombus]

My biggest issue with the notion of subsidized college/healthcare, is that we all know who pays for it and who doesn't. It's not the rich, it's not the poor, it's those of us peddling out 6 day workweeks and stressing out of our minds. If the 1% didn't already control all the lawmakers, then we might have a fighting chance, and I may easily be convinced to go down the socialist rabbit hole. But instead, you either pick Republican and they take from the middle to give to the rich, or you pick Democrat and they take from the middle to give to the poor. Or if like me you pick a decent, intelligent, rational human being who isn't affiliated with the giants and wasn't even F'ing allowed at the debate, then you get laughed out of the room. Far be it for me to be the one to convince a couple hundred million people to vote for someone based on who they are instead of based on which party they're part of. Again, the 1% have successfully manipulated everyone into thinking that one party or the other is going to be good for the country.

As to the whole "work harder" thing, I think we face a fine line wherein as long as you are personally working to improve your situation, then protesting your conditions is reasonable. I think that there are far too many who protest thinking it'll change things for them vs those of us who already have plenty but protest for the sake of others. I.E, be accountable for your situation as much as humanly possible... THEN protest. You're far more likely to end up an ATCS making 100K+ than you are to be able to convince politicians to give you more.

The notion of subsidized healthcare? We're Federal employees, we literally get affordable, high quality, government subsidized healthcare. How can you possibly argue against something you yourself enjoy? Think about all the private sector workers paying taxes that ultimately subsidize our healthcare and pay our salaries. This is their argument, not ours.

 

[Termine]

We're Federal employees, we literally get affordable, high quality, government subsidized healthcare. How can you possibly argue against something you yourself enjoy?

This is the conservative mantra, has been since Reagan or earlier: "I got mine, fuck you."

 

[32andBelow]

But everything you have said up to this point is literally not in your (middle class) best interest. You're championing these social causes that make you feel better but would not benefit you in any fasion.

If you want to vote left for gay marriage and pro-choice rights then I would agree, but dont pretend like government-run social programs wont directly affect your bottom line as an FAA Z-level employee that will be making over $150k eventually.

I plan on having kids so having affordable education is important. I don’t believe since I’m too old to go to college we should do it.