Shoot The Breeze

[DankVectorz]

Last time I checked, having a ballot in your hand from early October until you mail it is more of a time period than ~30 minutes at a polling booth.

like I said, what’s on the ballot isn’t some secret. You can easily see what’s on the ballot long before you ever step foot in a voting booth. They even mail out sample ballots well in advance. I mean, to not know what’s on the ballot before Nov 3 takes some real work to avoid any kind of information,

 

[Homsar]

Omg what are you talking about. You don’t need the ballot to decide who your voting for. States send out voter guides months in advance. Are you seriously walking in on Tuesday not knowing who your gonna pick for president or hour or your state bills?

like I said, what’s on the ballot isn’t some secret. You can easily see what’s on the ballot long before you ever step foot in a voting booth. They even mail out sample ballots well in advance. I mean, to not know what’s on the ballot before Nov 3 takes some real work to avoid any kind of information,

So...you both are proving my point, having a ballot turned in by November 3 deadline is not unreasonable at all.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I’ve seen both live. Actually, it was the tour they did back in...2002? 2003? I thought Green Day was better live, but I liked Blink’s studio stuff. If I could only listen to one, it would be Blink.
Maybe it’s my age, but I really had no idea the impact Green Day had on the punk scene. Reading/listening to Nofx’s book and hearing each of them describe the first time they heard ‘Dookie’ was a bit of a shock to me.

Green Day was the first really commercially marketable punk band on a large audience scale. Huge influence on the genre. You'd have no Blink 182 to listen to without green day.

And Dookie to this day is one of my favorite albums, and the first I ever owned.

 

[32andBelow]

So...you both are proving my point, having a ballot turned in by November 3 deadline is not unreasonable at all.

The ballot is turned in. It just might get delivered after it’s turned in. It’s undemocratic to not count a ballot that could have been sent a week before the election

 

[Peter Gibbons]

So...you both are proving my point, having a ballot turned in by November 3 deadline is not unreasonable at all.

Again, for the fifteenth time. If it's postmarked on election day, that means you turned it in to a gov official by Nov 3.

So no, it's not unreasonable, because that's exactly what people are doing.

This isn't exactly big brain shit here. I know you arent dumb, so watching you be so willfully ignorant is mind blowing to me.

 

[Homsar]

The ballot is turned in. It just might get delivered after it’s turned in. It’s undemocratic to not count a ballot that could have been sent a week before the election

Turned in to a polling place, not to the mail, a courier, an Uber driver, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mail-delivery-concerns-put-spotlight-on-ballot-deadlines/2020/08/20/e143f10e-e315-11ea-82d8-5e55d47e90ca_story.html

“A majority of states require mail-in ballots to be received by Election Day, while others accept them days or even weeks later if they’re postmarked by Election Day.”

It sounds like the majority of states have common sense, and enforce a common deadline on the receipt of ballots, that being Election Day. Are you seriously saying that the majority of states are “undemocratic?” That’s nuts.

Again, for the fifteenth time. If it's postmarked on election day, that means you turned it in to a gov official by Nov 3.

The IRS are government officials, if I sent a ballot to them, we should hold up the results of the election until it’s found and forwarded properly? That’s also nuts.

So no, it's not unreasonable, because that's exactly what people are doing.

When the majority of states (and literally other countries) have a common deadline of ballots received by the evening of Election Day, it’s pretty obvious that it’s a fair deadline.

As an aside, this is a great example of another reason why I’m forced to vote a certain way this year. Other years I know that I can vote my conscience of Libertarian, because my vote will be counted and my voice will be heard, and the cycle will continue. This year is different: One political party wants to change the rules entirely because they can’t win under the current system:

They can’t accept that election results in the senate and presidency caused them to lose Supreme Court justices of their persuasion, so they want to change the rules and stack the court to get back their majority.

They can’t accept that we have established ballot deadlines for receipt of ballots, so they want to change the rules and extend them indefinitely.

They can’t accept that the Electoral College exists to protect the Republic we live in, so they want to change the rules and abolish it so that we can have direct democracy, tyranny of the majority.

These are all basic rules/functions of our country, that I’ve known both parties will follow. That changed this year, and now (along with the gun control push) I’ve been reluctantly forced to support someone who I couldn’t vote for last time, because he wants to keep those rules in place.

This isn't exactly big brain shit here. I know you arent dumb, so watching you be so willfully ignorant is mind blowing to me.

I’m not going to make ad homenim attacks to those I disagree with. You think the way you do, and while I disagree, I’m sure you have your reasons.

 

[32andBelow]

Turned in to a polling place, not to the mail, a courier, an Uber driver, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mail-delivery-concerns-put-spotlight-on-ballot-deadlines/2020/08/20/e143f10e-e315-11ea-82d8-5e55d47e90ca_story.html

“A majority of states require mail-in ballots to be received by Election Day, while others accept them days or even weeks later if they’re postmarked by Election Day.”

It sounds like the majority of states have common sense, and enforce a common deadline on the receipt of ballots, that being Election Day. Are you seriously saying that the majority of states are “undemocratic?” That’s nuts.




The IRS are government officials, if I sent a ballot to them, we should hold up the results of the election until it’s found and forwarded properly? That’s also nuts.



When the majority of states (and literally other countries) have a common deadline of ballots received by the evening of Election Day, it’s pretty obvious that it’s a fair deadline.

As an aside, this is a great example of another reason why I’m forced to vote a certain way this year. Other years I know that I can vote my conscience of Libertarian, because my vote will be counted and my voice will be heard, and the cycle will continue. This year is different: One political party wants to change the rules entirely because they can’t win under the current system:

They can’t accept that election results in the senate and presidency caused them to lose Supreme Court justices of their persuasion, so they want to change the rules and stack the court to get back their majority.

They can’t accept that we have established ballot deadlines for receipt of ballots, so they want to change the rules and extend them indefinitely.

They can’t accept that the Electoral College exists to protect the Republic we live in, so they want to change the rules and abolish it so that we can have direct democracy, tyranny of the majority.

These are all basic rules/functions of our country, that I’ve known both parties will follow. That changed this year, and now (along with the gun control push) I’ve been reluctantly forced to support someone who I couldn’t vote for last time, because he wants to keep those rules in place.



I’m not going to make ad homenim attacks to those I disagree with. You think the way you do, and while I disagree, I’m sure you have your reasons.

The elections are run by the states. If the state rule is postmark. That’s the rule. Period. A postmark is governments acceptance of your ballot. Period.

 

[Homsar]

The elections are run by the states. If the state rule is postmark. That’s the rule. Period. A postmark is governments acceptance of your ballot. Period.

You’re blatantly ignoring my question, so I’ll ask it again:

It sounds like the majority of states have common sense, and enforce a common deadline on the receipt of ballots, that being Election Day. Are you seriously saying that the majority of states are “undemocratic?”

 

[CF]

I’ve seen both live. Actually, it was the tour they did back in...2002? 2003? I thought Green Day was better live, but I liked Blink’s studio stuff. If I could only listen to one, it would be Blink.
Maybe it’s my age, but I really had no idea the impact Green Day had on the punk scene. Reading/listening to Nofx’s book and hearing each of them describe the first time they heard ‘Dookie’ was a bit of a shock to me.

I’ve only seen green day once and it was at a club show in like 2012 so they kinda sucked and the pit was a bunch of 16 year old girls and middle aged dudes. Never seen blink but I always liked their studio music better.

Dookie did a lot more for punky alternative music than anything blink ever put out. Blink just arrived a little too late. If you like reading about the history of punk especially in CA bad religions book just came out and it has a lot of good stuff about that.

 

[32andBelow]

You’re blatantly ignoring my question, so I’ll ask it again:

It sounds like the majority of states have common sense, and enforce a common deadline on the receipt of ballots, that being Election Day. Are you seriously saying that the majority of states are “undemocratic?”

Well a good number of them certainly are. Like Texas limiting ballot boxes. And Georgia and Alabama constantly de registering Democrats.

I think each state should get to make there own rules and they shouldn’t be changed now. So you saying Election Day is Election Day period is just not true. Votes take a month to get fully counted and certified.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Turned in to a polling place, not to the mail, a courier, an Uber driver, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mail-delivery-concerns-put-spotlight-on-ballot-deadlines/2020/08/20/e143f10e-e315-11ea-82d8-5e55d47e90ca_story.html

“A majority of states require mail-in ballots to be received by Election Day, while others accept them days or even weeks later if they’re postmarked by Election Day.”

It sounds like the majority of states have common sense, and enforce a common deadline on the receipt of ballots, that being Election Day. Are you seriously saying that the majority of states are “undemocratic?” That’s nuts.




The IRS are government officials, if I sent a ballot to them, we should hold up the results of the election until it’s found and forwarded properly? That’s also nuts.



When the majority of states (and literally other countries) have a common deadline of ballots received by the evening of Election Day, it’s pretty obvious that it’s a fair deadline.

As an aside, this is a great example of another reason why I’m forced to vote a certain way this year. Other years I know that I can vote my conscience of Libertarian, because my vote will be counted and my voice will be heard, and the cycle will continue. This year is different: One political party wants to change the rules entirely because they can’t win under the current system:

They can’t accept that election results in the senate and presidency caused them to lose Supreme Court justices of their persuasion, so they want to change the rules and stack the court to get back their majority.

They can’t accept that we have established ballot deadlines for receipt of ballots, so they want to change the rules and extend them indefinitely.

They can’t accept that the Electoral College exists to protect the Republic we live in, so they want to change the rules and abolish it so that we can have direct democracy, tyranny of the majority.

These are all basic rules/functions of our country, that I’ve known both parties will follow. That changed this year, and now (along with the gun control push) I’ve been reluctantly forced to support someone who I couldn’t vote for last time, because he wants to keep those rules in place.



I’m not going to make ad homenim attacks to those I disagree with. You think the way you do, and while I disagree, I’m sure you have your reasons.

Of course you wouldn't hand your mail in ballot to an irs official. You would hand it to a mailman, because that's his job. If a states rules say you can do that till election day those are the rules. If another state says it has to be received by the election board by election day fine, but the encumbent whose in charge of the mail men removing machines so it cannot be done in an orderly, timely fashion in order to skew election results shouldn't pass the smell test if you are at all interested in democratic norms.

So your assertion here, just so we are clear, is deliberate tampering with the postal system, in order to delay ballots that very likely will go against you is totally legit and normal, a guy who on multiple occasions has said he may not accept the results of the election if it goes against him is the one totally for democratic norms, and the opposition is the one who can't accept results, and the electoral college is all good and fine even if in multiple elections in the past couple decades its caused the majority of voters in the country's choice to lose an election, and since you seem obsessed with how other countries do it, no democratic government that I'm aware of use such an asinine system to pick a leader that goes against the will of the majority.

Moreover you are saying you are voting for more of the same clusterfuck we've had the last 3.5 years because somehow all the impropriety on behalf of Trump and his administration is somehow substantially better on a social and democratic norm front than Biden, who I agree with you is definitely problematic in many ways, though probably for some different reasons aside from the few things we agree on.

I find it really hard that someone can on one hand play the strict constitutionalist libertarian card and on the other be fine and dandy (at least to the point of saying he's less bad) with a dude who time and again has made it clear he gives zero fucks about anyone's rights. If the current executive branch malfeasance isn't counter to your libertarian worldview, what is?

I mean I don't care how you vote, I'm not gonna change your mind anymore than you are gonna change mine, but let's be honest and clear about our talking points here, as well as our intent, and not make this about something that it's not and try and make excuses otherwise. There's no way in hell you can convince me you are trying to make a good faith argument for Trump on basis of morality, or social and democratic norms, as you've repeatedly attempted to do the last few days.

 

[Horny4Vectors]

I’ve only seen green day once and it was at a club show in like 2012 so they kinda sucked and the pit was a bunch of 16 year old girls and middle aged dudes. Never seen blink but I always liked their studio music better.

Dookie did a lot more for punky alternative music than anything blink ever put out. Blink just arrived a little too late. If you like reading about the history of punk especially in CA bad religions book just came out and it has a lot of good stuff about that.

I’ll check it out. Have you read the NOFX one?

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I’ll check it out. Have you read the NOFX one?

End of the day I'll take one sex pistols album or one Ramones album over any 10 from a 90s or 2000s punk band. Change my mind.

 

[CF]

I’ll check it out. Have you read the NOFX one?

I honestly didn’t even know it existed. Which is funny cause they are probably my second favorite punk band behind BR. Seen them probably 10 times in the last decade.

 

[Komp]

I don’t see why having a deadline of 11:59pm Election Day to have your ballot turned in is such a radical thing.

This thread really does give me a headache. I hope trunalimunumaprzure is covered under badakathcare.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1322643443722657794

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Homsar

We Have Never Had Final Results on Election Day (Published 2020)

President Trump has been trying to pre-emptively delegitimize ballots counted after Nov. 3. But states have always counted past election night.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Counterclockwise]

That’s it, the election is over. Trump should just pack his bags now. Y’all got him!

 

[Homsar]

Well a good number of them certainly are. Like Texas limiting ballot boxes. And Georgia and Alabama constantly de registering Democrats.

I think each state should get to make there own rules and they shouldn’t be changed now. So you saying Election Day is Election Day period is just not true. Votes take a month to get fully counted and certified.

You’ve moved the goalposts a great deal here. Are the majority of states “undemocratic” because they mandate that ballots must be received by Election Day, or not? We’re not talking about any other qualifier here, because you insisted that such a deadline was “undemocratic.”

Of course you wouldn't hand your mail in ballot to an irs official.

A gov official is a gov official. You weren’t specific.

You would hand it to a mailman, because that's his job. If a states rules say you can do that till election day those are the rules. If another state says it has to be received by the election board by election day fine, but the encumbent whose in charge of the mail men removing machines so it cannot be done in an orderly, timely fashion in order to skew election results shouldn't pass the smell test if you are at all interested in democratic norms.

It’s alarming, so it should be investigated. That’s what Silver did.

So your assertion here, just so we are clear, is deliberate tampering with the postal system, in order to delay ballots that very likely will go against you

That’s an unsubstantiated accusation, do you have a source? Again, Silver is a pretty good statistician who is left leaning, and even he thinks the postal counting conspiracy is loony. What proof do you have here?

a guy who on multiple occasions has said he may not accept the results of the election if it goes against him is the one totally for democratic norms,

More norms than the other party, absolutely. At least he said “may,” when the three things I listed are firm goals of the extreme left that they didn’t use “may,” with, they’re established stances.

and the opposition is the one who can't accept results

Because “not my President” wasn’t a thing for years.

and the electoral college is all good and fine even if in multiple elections in the past couple decades its caused the majority of voters in the country's choice to lose an election

We live in a republic, not a direct democracy. There is a difference.

and since you seem obsessed with how other countries do it, no democratic government that I'm aware of use such an asinine system to pick a leader that goes against the will of the majority.

I’m using other countries’ examples of mandating their ballots received by the end of Election Day as a point that arguments against that simple rule are fringe.

Moreover you are saying you are voting for more of the same clusterfuck we've had the last 3.5 years

I really don’t think it was a clusterfuck, empirically. The Russiagate conspiracy fizzled out, and all of the fascism bogeymen seem to have never played out. He’s not the nicest person, and isn’t someone we should look up to, but he does the job well. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette summed this all up well in their endorsement of him, the first one of a Republican since 1972:

The man and the record

Donald Trump is not Churchill, to be sure, but he gets things done.

www.post-gazette.com

because somehow all the impropriety on behalf of Trump and his administration is somehow substantially better on a social and democratic norm front than Biden

Yes, it really is.

I find it really hard that someone can on one hand play the strict constitutionalist libertarian card and on the other be fine and dandy (at least to the point of saying he's less bad) with a dude who time and again has made it clear he gives zero fucks about anyone's rights. If the current executive branch malfeasance isn't counter to your libertarian worldview, what is?

Biden threatens my way of life more than Trump does, it’s as simple as that.

I mean I don't care how you vote, I'm not gonna change your mind anymore than you are gonna change mine, but let's be honest and clear about our talking points here, as well as our intent, and not make this about something that it's not and try and make excuses otherwise. There's no way in hell you can convince me you are trying to make a good faith argument for Trump on basis of morality, or social and democratic norms, as you've repeatedly attempted to do the last few days.

I don’t recall saying Trump has more morals than Biden, just that Biden has been taped touching children inappropriately. Trump’s not that nice of a guy personally, but he’s a better president than Biden would be, and Trump’s not threatening my way of life nor the American systems which elected him.

 

[Homsar]

Homsar

We Have Never Had Final Results on Election Day (Published 2020)

President Trump has been trying to pre-emptively delegitimize ballots counted after Nov. 3. But states have always counted past election night.

www.nytimes.com

This seems like another case of the media taking what he’s saying out of context...

“The Election should end on November 3rd., not weeks later!” he tweeted on Friday, two days after telling reporters in Nevada, “Hopefully, the few states remaining that want to take a lot of time after Nov. 3 to count ballots, that won’t be allowed by the various courts.”

“You would think you want to have the votes counted, tabulated, finished by the evening of Nov. 3,” he said at a campaign event a week earlier.”

Those quotes sound a lot like desire, not mandate.

 

[Horny4Vectors]

I honestly didn’t even know it existed. Which is funny cause they are probably my second favorite punk band behind BR. Seen them probably 10 times in the last decade.

You’ll definitely enjoy it then. Get it on Audible. They all read it