Struggling in Training

[KingPong12]

Hey guys, I'm training on my last two sectors (R-side) at a level 11 center. The problem is these are the hardest ones and I'm really struggling. I received an extension, but that's going to be done soon. On high altitude, I was able to certify but low altitude is something I'm just simply not understanding. My trainers and I have talked about my performance and we both acknowledge that it isn't going very well. I know that there's always the options of getting more hours from a TRB, but I'm kinda worried in general. I haven't given up yet and know that I'm kinda getting ahead of myself here.

I always keep a good attitude and have a really good standing in my area, but its just that when I plug in to train on low everyone in the area stops joking with me and it just gets more serious in general. Which is why I just feel like I might be hitting the end of the road.

If I were to wash out on my last two R's what facility type and level could I expect? (assuming the NEST retains)

I've seen a lot of trainees washout as AG or D1 but never on D3, is it likely that they would keep extending me until they felt that could certify since I'm so close to CPC, or would they just give up after awhile?


Thanks everyone!

 

[Stinger]

Hey guys, I'm training on my last two sectors (R-side) at a level 11 center. The problem is these are the hardest ones and I'm really struggling. I received an extension, but that's going to be done soon. On high altitude, I was able to certify but low altitude is something I'm just simply not understanding. My trainers and I have talked about my performance and we both acknowledge that it isn't going very well. I know that there's always the options of getting more hours from a TRB, but I'm kinda worried in general. I haven't given up yet and know that I'm kinda getting ahead of myself here.

I always keep a good attitude and have a really good standing in my area, but its just that when I plug in to train on low everyone in the area stops joking with me and it just gets more serious in general. Which is why I just feel like I might be hitting the end of the road.

If I were to wash out on my last two R's what facility type and level could I expect? (assuming the NEST retains)

I've seen a lot of trainees washout as AG or D1 but never on D3, is it likely that they would keep extending me until they felt that could certify since I'm so close to CPC, or would they just give up after awhile?


Thanks everyone!

Level 9 and below towers and up/downs most likely.
They'll do what they can to get you certified, but there has to be an end at some point. When you say "low altitude" is it from surface to FL230, or above FL230?

 

[KingPong12]

Thanks for the info.

Its surface up to FL230, and we have 4 adjacent APCH (including a RAPCON and a Class B) plus a lot of military airspace. So it gets quite complicated in my opinion.

 

[Maintainvfr]

Hey guys, I'm training on my last two sectors (R-side) at a level 11 center. The problem is these are the hardest ones and I'm really struggling. I received an extension, but that's going to be done soon. On high altitude, I was able to certify but low altitude is something I'm just simply not understanding. My trainers and I have talked about my performance and we both acknowledge that it isn't going very well. I know that there's always the options of getting more hours from a TRB, but I'm kinda worried in general. I haven't given up yet and know that I'm kinda getting ahead of myself here.

I always keep a good attitude and have a really good standing in my area, but its just that when I plug in to train on low everyone in the area stops joking with me and it just gets more serious in general. Which is why I just feel like I might be hitting the end of the road.

If I were to wash out on my last two R's what facility type and level could I expect? (assuming the NEST retains)

I've seen a lot of trainees washout as AG or D1 but never on D3, is it likely that they would keep extending me until they felt that could certify since I'm so close to CPC, or would they just give up after awhile?


Thanks everyone!

I've done a lot of TRBs, so I'm gonna give you some advice from that side of it. If your goal is to certify at your current facility, and you think you might be headed to a TRB then do not say to your supervisor or in your training team meetings "I'm just not getting it" or anything like that, because they will tell that during their interview. If you have a positive attitude and know the book, your trainers will usually stand by you.

It is really rare for someone to hit a TRB at this point, and every one I know of as long as the trainee is still motivated then they got time back from their first board. Coming into a building and hearing good things about the trainee from people makes us that much more likely to fight for you when the doors are shut. There's also no flawless training program, so most good TRB reps can get you anything they want as long. (I'm sure there's people on this site that have had bad experiences on boards, so I want to also say that there are bad reps out there unfortunately.)

If your training is terminated at any point, stinger is correct. 8/9 up downs will be your highest offers. You will definitely be retained so I would strike that worry from your mind. Just focus on your training, and know your bookwork. If someone sits down and says that after all this time you still didn't know x frequency or LOA that's really bad. But if they sit down and say you know he had some bumps but he's motivated and knows his stuff and/or is getting better but slowly, we can work with that.

Good luck, let me know if you have any questions.

 

[KingPong12]

I've done a lot of TRBs, so I'm gonna give you some advice from that side of it. If your goal is to certify at your current facility, and you think you might be headed to a TRB then do not say to your supervisor or in your training team meetings "I'm just not getting it" or anything like that, because they will tell that during their interview. If you have a positive attitude and know the book, your trainers will usually stand by you.

It is really rare for someone to hit a TRB at this point, and every one I know of as long as the trainee is still motivated then they got time back from their first board. Coming into a building and hearing good things about the trainee from people makes us that much more likely to fight for you when the doors are shut. There's also no flawless training program, so most good TRB reps can get you anything they want as long. (I'm sure there's people on this site that have had bad experiences on boards, so I want to also say that there are bad reps out there unfortunately.)

If your training is terminated at any point, stinger is correct. 8/9 up downs will be your highest offers. You will definitely be retained so I would strike that worry from your mind. Just focus on your training, and know your bookwork. If someone sits down and says that after all this time you still didn't know x frequency or LOA that's really bad. But if they sit down and say you know he had some bumps but he's motivated and knows his stuff and/or is getting better but slowly, we can work with that.

Good luck, let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks for the information and encouragement. I definitely haven't and won't give up! and I know all of the knowledge stuff its just performance just isn't there yet, I just get overwhelmed sometimes. I will keep plugging away.

 

[DankVectorz]

Some people might look down on this, but have you thought of taking some leave if you’re able? A week off to clear your head and de stress can do wonders. Only problem with it is some people seem to think trainees shouldn’t be allowed vacations. I think that’s a bunch of bull and it def helped me stay sane in training.

 

[MJ]

If there's specific questions or concepts you have trouble with, you could post them here. Can't do anything for performance issues, but sometimes just hearing a different explanation or technique can be helpful.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Some people might look down on this, but have you thought of taking some leave if you’re able? A week off to clear your head and de stress can do wonders. Only problem with it is some people seem to think trainees shouldn’t be allowed vacations. I think that’s a bunch of bull and it def helped me stay sane in training.

Yeah I never understood that. Why not take leave you’re entitled to as a trainee, especially when you won’t necessarily get it once you’re a CPC. And training is definitely stressful so you’re just making it better on yourself and for yourself

 

[vectorwagon]

I agree but management likes to use that against trainees especially if they’re struggling. It’s not right but they do it. It’s bullshit.

 

[DL0509]

A trainer once told me this is your career, if you feel like you need a mental break take one. I was in your shoes once and I ended up changing training teams, and days off for a change of pace, and certified 2 weeks later.

Also screw mgrs or other CPCs that would look down on a trainee for taking time off. We all know CPCs that have taken time off because they had a rough day.

 

[JNev]

Man, reading this has me counting my blessings I got Tower. We were encouraged to take leave during training and training has been relatively easy. Granted we’re not making Center money, but woof this sounds rough and I’m sure is far from abnormal

 

[Maintainvfr]

Man, reading this has me counting my blessings I got Tower. We were encouraged to take leave during training and training has been relatively easy. Granted we’re not making Center money, but woof this sounds rough and I’m sure is far from abnormal

It's in towers too, you just got one with a good environment

 

[Dontbotherme]

If they gave you an extension, there was a reasonable expectation you would certify in that amount or you shouldn’t/wouldn’t have received the extension. Have you received and/or asked for SET (lab time, classroom refresher time, Falcon replay critiques, et cetera)? All of your deficiencies should be clearly documented and action taken to correct those issues. The suggestion to take a few days off is a great one. Clear your head, come back, and see if you can get certified. The TRB process isn’t there to say you should/shouldn’t certify. They are there to make sure the integrity of the training program was maintained while giving you a reasonable opportunity to be successful. The NATCA rep is there to ensure the above, not to personally represent you at the TRB. That is your fac rep’s job at the TRB. Yes, the TRB panel give a recommendation or dissenting opinions, but they don’t say,”...John should be certified here so we are going to reset his hours...” Your ATM would take the TRB recommendation(s) and ultimately decide what to do in regards to your training. Keep your head up, ask questions, and keep trying to improve!

 

[Maintainvfr]

If they gave you an extension, there was a reasonable expectation you would certify in that amount or you shouldn’t/wouldn’t have received the extension. Have you received and/or asked for SET (lab time, classroom refresher time, Falcon replay critiques, et cetera)? All of your deficiencies should be clearly documented and action taken to correct those issues. The suggestion to take a few days off is a great one. Clear your head, come back, and see if you can get certified. The TRB process isn’t there to say you should/shouldn’t certify. They are there to make sure the integrity of the training program was maintained while giving you a reasonable opportunity to be successful. The NATCA rep is there to ensure the above, not to personally represent you at the TRB. That is your fac rep’s job at the TRB. Yes, the TRB panel give a recommendation or dissenting opinions, but they don’t say,”...John should be certified here so we are going to reset his hours...” Your ATM would take the TRB recommendation(s) and ultimately decide what to do in regards to your training. Keep your head up, ask questions, and keep trying to improve!

I feel like most of this was in response to my post, so I'm just gonna say that the board assesses whether everyone has done their job. Including the trainee.

 

[byoungblood]

A trainer once told me this is your career, if you feel like you need a mental break take one. I was in your shoes once and I ended up changing training teams, and days off for a change of pace, and certified 2 weeks later.

Also screw mgrs or other CPCs that would look down on a trainee for taking time off. We all know CPCs that have taken time off because they had a rough day.

Couple of trainees I’ve had thus far, I’ve always encouraged them to take leave if they feel like they need it. I’d much rather have one come in refreshed after taking a couple of days off rather than see them struggle because they’re being weighed down by how things have been going.

Not to mention, once they do check out, they’re not going to be able to take leave any old time like they can when they are training. Might as well take it before you’re being assigned OT every other week.

 

[AB19]

Man, reading this has me counting my blessings I got Tower. We were encouraged to take leave during training and training has been relatively easy. Granted we’re not making Center money, but woof this sounds rough and I’m sure is far from abnormal

We don’t do that shit here

 

[JNev]

We don’t do that shit here

Why? Don’t you get like 1 hour of training/day? They care if you’re not there to sit there and do nothing for 7 hours?

 

[BPhresh]

If you washout at this point they’ll retain you for a tower position BUT you will have to go back to the academy for tower training.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Tower training at okc is not mandatory. The facility can choose to cover the basics in house.

 

[Stinger]

Tower training at okc is not mandatory. The facility can choose to cover the basics in house.

It is required for someone that's not a CPC.