Stuck in a holding pattern at a facility

[FightingIrish2012]

Why not? The way it was explained to me is that article 60 moves have priority over all other ncept move requests. Is that not true? School me please.

I think the NCEPT MOU specifically states that Article 60 is eliminated. They can do that mid contract if the Agency and NATCA agree. But don’t sweat it man, even prior to that Article 60 was almost never applied the way you would think.

It’s like the RPI rankings in college basketball. On paper they were big but they never meant a thing and were ignored by everyone who mattered, it’s just finally in the last year or two they officially admitted those ranking are useless and ignored (as was Article 60).

 

[Stinger]

Why not? The way it was explained to me is that article 60 moves have priority over all other ncept move requests. Is that not true? School me please.

Because with the NCEPT rules, you can either be selected or you can't because of staffing.
If you've been at a facility for 10 years, and someone else has been there for 2 years, there's no criteria in the selection process to give priority to you. If the 2 year person is selected above you in a ranking list, he could be selected and you'd still be at your facility.

The person that gave you the Article 60 explanation either has no idea of the current process, or is just trying to make you feel better about your chances.

 

[Tusaz]

Because with the NCEPT rules, you can either be selected or you can't because of staffing.
If you've been at a facility for 10 years, and someone else has been there for 2 years, there's no criteria in the selection process to give priority to you. If the 2 year person is selected above you in a ranking list, he could be selected and you'd still be at your facility.

The person that gave you the Article 60 explanation either has no idea of the current process, or is just trying to make you feel better about your chances.

First off, nobodys trying making me feel better about “my chances”, I was lucky enough to get selected to my top spot last fall, I’m just trying to get info to look out for one of my coworkers so that he can get the hell out of dodge too.

Second, I just looked in the ncept MOU again and it says Article 60 section 2 of the cba shall be replaced but “employees will be afforded the opportunity to utilize their “priority consideration status” when their facility meets the established criteria in Article 42 section 12.” Hence the confusion.

That makes it sound like your facility only needs to be eligible to release and that the people previously eligible under the old article 60 rule still DO get priority and their move request looked at before the short timers.

 

[PushingTin]

It’s like the RPI rankings in college basketball. On paper they were big but they never meant a thing and were ignored by everyone who mattered, it’s just finally in the last year or two they officially admitted those ranking are useless and ignored (as was Article 60).

Lolol great esoteric RPI take. So true. "My team should be a...5...this year!!!...." Selection Sunday happens.... boom 9, playing Kansas. Good game thx for the 30 win season better luck next time.

 

[Stinger]

First off, nobodys trying making me feel better about “my chances”, I was lucky enough to get selected to my top spot last fall, I’m just trying to get info to look out for one of my coworkers so that he can get the hell out of dodge too.

Second, I just looked in the ncept MOU again and it says Article 60 section 2 of the cba shall be replaced but “employees will be afforded the opportunity to utilize their “priority consideration status” when their facility meets the established criteria in Article 42 section 12.” Hence the confusion.

That makes it sound like your facility only needs to be eligible to release and that the people previously eligible under the old article 60 rule still DO get priority and their move request looked at before the short timers.

The ATM ranking list makes the old priority consideration completely obsolete. Top to bottom ranking and that determines the order of selection. There's no point in the process that priority consideration can take effect.

 

[colefinley]

This has gone much further than I had thought it was going to, but I'm grateful for the information ?

 

[colefinley]

Lolol great esoteric RPI take. So true. "My team should be a...5...this year!!!...." Selection Sunday happens.... boom 9, playing Kansas. Good game thx for the 30 win season better luck next time.

Except kU sucks ?

 

[Cpc123]

Join the club kid.

 

[spider]

I don't really know how many details are at lower facilities but I'll say this...details are crap. NATCA loves to talk about modernizing the system as if it's the FAA but I'll be the first one to say that I don't see why modernizing the system is one of NATCA's primary concerns. I've got 6 OT's over 8 weeks and most of them are to cover details. The one redeeming quality about shutdowns is that staffing actually improves. Maybe there would be more movement if we didn't have so many people doing things besides ATC.

 

[Maintainvfr]

I don't really know how many details are at lower facilities but I'll say this...details are crap. NATCA loves to talk about modernizing the system as if it's the FAA but I'll be the first one to say that I don't see why modernizing the system is one of NATCA's primary concerns. I've got 6 OT's over 8 weeks and most of them are to cover details. The one redeeming quality about shutdowns is that staffing actually improves. Maybe there would be more movement if we didn't have so many people doing things besides ATC.

All of the outdated equipment makes our job harder and makes for a more stressful work environment. The union should absolutely be advocating for better equipment. Do we want the FAA doing this without the union having a say? I don't.

It also doesn't have any effect on movement, the people are still assigned to a facility.

 

[Shikaka]

Wait...there's a union?

 

[bullman]

Longest I’ve heard of was a guy at FAI for 6 years. Couldn’t take it anymore and bid out as a Supe to ICT

And

Longest I’ve heard of was a guy at FAI for 6 years. Couldn’t take it anymore and bid out as a Supe to ICT

and he won’t get out of there any time sooner

 

[squawkIFR]

Wait...there's a union?

?

 

[lIlI]

And

and he won’t get out of there any time sooner

Poor guy

 

[Lemonhead]

Poor guy

Nice user name ^.^

 

[PrisonMike]

Why do I always see Asheville on peoples lists?

Because hippies.

 

[colefinley]

Why do I always see Asheville on peoples lists?

Ashville, Bismark, Fargo, some random place in NY, at least two places in CA, Anchorage, and then some randoms. I feel like you can count on those almost every time.

 

[SCofATC]

You really shouldn't say something like that unless you know what life is like at the Aspens/Nantuckets of the country. You'll rot there your entire career and never save a penny for retirement

Dolan and others who expressed dissatisfaction with my statement. You are absolutely right. Unless I knew the working conditions at every facility I cannot make such a claim. I only know my experience at my facility and the many others that I have talked to. My apologies.

Its sad to see others stuck who wanna move on. And I dont have an answer other than we need more peeps hired. One facility I will keep nameless had resorted to intentionally doing what they can do to get themselves privatized/shutdown so they can all be transfered, hopefully to a higher facility. That was a conversation I had 2 years ago.

With my experiences and those I know, I am very familiar with how the lack of traffic can affect moral. But I am also very familiar with how the same facility can turn it around and take pride in their work producing a training environment that creates a revolving door of inbounds and outbounds.

A comment was made about how there are many other jobs in the private sector that are better than ours. That is true. But not when it comes down to the job of separating aircraft. Unless you wanna move to another country. The next Union function I will look for some Aspen and Nantucket peeps and get knowledged up on their situation.

Edit: Just wanted to reiterate what Electric Fence said.

You get stuck at lower level facilities because managers years ago put your facility in a staffing whole that was collaboratively created by natca and management and it has taken years to get up to required numbers. people also bullshit hardship out and no one says anything about it, and other people play the ncept game and bid higher ncept priority facilities than you. Help build an environment where people train fast and successfully that way you create a revolving door facility and you will eventually get out and the academy will back full as soon as possible. Instead of plugging in and hoping they get it, do some work outside of the tower and radar room. That’s how it works and yes there have been some mistakes at some facilities but the academy placement list works. Not only will lower level facilities get academy grads but they will also potentially get nest placements. I was at a facility for 5 years and got out. It was far from family and in a crap location for me but I signed up to be put anywhere and dealt with it and made the best. Train people for success. In my opinion That’s the key. Instead people complain about being burnt out which I understand but thats what you signed up for.

The higher lever level facilities are a completely different story. But the facilities that get academy grads can build an environment that create a constant stream of bodies and hope you get out next go around.

 

[DankVectorz]

We got a transfer from Aspen just a few months ago. He said the commute sucked (most people live at least an hour away) but otherwise it was a nice place to work and if you like outdoors stuff you may never want to leave

 

[Wizard]

We got a transfer from Aspen just a few months ago. He said the commute sucked (most people live at least an hour away) but otherwise it was a nice place to work and if you like outdoors stuff you may never want to leave

Nice place to work but took the n90 way out?