Stuck in a holding pattern at a facility

[ajmezz]

That dude from atc subreddit is gonna be pissed that names are showing ?

 

[DankVectorz]

Not gonna lie there are perks to it, I'm thinking about dropping a package to N90 for my high 3 during training lol

We already had 1 new trainee retire and another basically say he’s going to retire as a trainee after 3 years

OKC was fun. The drinks were cheap and the chicks were easy. It just has crap weather and now I'm married. Or I would think of going

The probleM with OKc was that the 3-4 months you’re there for the Academy is the perfect amount of time to stay in OKC. Enough time to pretty much see everything without it getting boring. Anything longer than that though don’t think I could do.

 

[CaptainObvious]

ATCNOMAD dude you didn't hear about the two ZOA developmental hardships to DEN did you. The way they handle center washes and so on screws over tower folk.

So where should they send them? Those hardships aren’t NEST products, so how do washes affect tower people?

 

[Peter Gibbons]

The probleM with OKc was that the 3-4 months you’re there for the Academy is the perfect amount of time to stay in OKC. Enough time to pretty much see everything without it getting boring. Anything longer than that though don’t think I could do.

Does OKC suck as a facility? I didn't mind the town; what's it like to work there? I'm thinking of trying to ERR somewhere. Most people spend their career trying to get home. I won the lottery and started at home, then it went to shit so I'll have to leave or work no traffic the rest of my career.

It's actually grown a lot in the last few years there's new bars and restaurants popping up weekly it seems and they have done a really good job of revitalizing a lot of old shitty neighborhoods into pretty cool areas to go out and live in. It's a much different place than it was 5 years ago, let alone 10 or 15. It's very much an up and coming city now.

It's still super affordable to live here. The only big time problem is a large portion of the school districts are fucking terrible of thats something you are worried about, and ok politics and politicians are kind of right wing nutty.

As for the facility... The training backlog is insane, took me a year to start local, who knows when I see the tracon, training times seem to be a lot longer than they need to be compared to similar facilites and I honestly don't see that culture changing. Other than that it's a good place to work. People are cool supes are good.

 

[Shikaka]

So where should they send them? Those hardships aren’t NEST products, so how do washes affect tower people?

It's an overall theme, center washouts and hardships taking desirable/higher level tower spots. The hardships were just a funny matter of fact, two center devs taking spots at DEN, why DEN, why not ZDV?

 

[Maintainvfr]

I do think that first facility center washouts should get the same offers that first facility terminal washouts do. Washing out of a center doesn't make then more qualified to work a busier tower somehow just because centers are inherently higher levels, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Shikaka]

I agree, unfortunately a lot of first facility terminal washouts get terminated.

 

[32andBelow]

It's actually grown a lot in the last few years there's new bars and restaurants popping up weekly it seems and they have done a really good job of revitalizing a lot of old shitty neighborhoods into pretty cool areas to go out and live in. It's a much different place than it was 5 years ago, let alone 10 or 15. It's very much an up and coming city now.

It's still super affordable to live here. The only big time problem is a large portion of the school districts are fucking terrible of thats something you are worried about, and ok politics and politicians are kind of right wing nutty.

As for the facility... The training backlog is insane, took me a year to start local, who knows when I see the tracon, training times seem to be a lot longer than they need to be compared to similar facilites and I honestly don't see that culture changing. Other than that it's a good place to work. People are cool supes are good.

It’s just a really bad place to do if you like things like skiing or hiking or having fun.

 

[Move78]

It's an overall theme, center washouts and hardships taking desirable/higher level tower spots. The hardships were just a funny matter of fact, two center devs taking spots at DEN, why DEN, why not ZDV?

Hardships get offered similar facility pay level so the ZOA guys got offered ZDV D01 DEN cuz ZOA is an 11 and a Hardship isn't a wash. Even as devs which I think most people would find ridiculous but no ones declining DEN in that case.

 

[Shikaka]

Hardships get offered similar facility pay level so the ZOA guys got offered ZDV D01 DEN cuz ZOA is an 11 and a Hardship isn't a wash. Even as devs which I think most people would find ridiculous but no ones declining DEN in that case.

That's what I find ridiculous about it thought, the Dev part of it. Also the whole thing seems geared in favor of the center...cranky tower flower I am.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

It’s just a really bad place to do if you like things like skiing or hiking or having fun.

You got me on the skiing. I'll give you that.

 

[OKbusyB]

I was thinking the same, if OKC is the highlights of your life that's sad.

Growing up there was not bad at all. That being said, when I saw I had Enroute on my TOL, I was not sad in the slightest.

 

[DankVectorz]

they have done a really good job of revitalizing a lot of old shitty neighborhoods into pretty cool areas to go out and live in

 

[ATCNOMAD]

Oh, so a center washout didn't go to a high level tower. It was a center hardships. That makes sense. At 1st I was trippin out

As a center washout if you were at least D2 you usually get offered level 7 towers and below. Which D2 at a 12 is about the same pay as CPC at a 7. So it makes sense

 

[POINTOUT]

I thinks it BS that when you wash from a center and go to the nest for a level 7 tower you go to the top of the pay band at d3 making close to what a Cpc makes. You failed, start from the bottom of the pay band like the rest of us. Don't @ me.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I thinks it BS that when you wash from a center and go to the nest for a level 7 tower you go to the top of the pay band at d3 making close to what a Cpc makes. You failed, start from the bottom of the pay band like the rest of us. Don't @ me.

"my life sucks so yours should too!"

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I thinks it BS that when you wash from a center and go to the nest for a level 7 tower you go to the top of the pay band at d3 making close to what a Cpc makes. You failed, start from the bottom of the pay band like the rest of us. Don't @ me.

I see the argument but center wash outs lives matter too. They already had a rough road just coming off a wash out, pay rules clearly state you are placed in the D band you washed from. Center people who had no certs and are retained would be AG not automatically a D.

So they are given a break but it is nothing egregious, helps to survive if they are in a training backlog or one of the dicked up level five up/downs with a god complex training culture where they think you need to work at a JFK or NCT speed/efficiency level before you get recommended, and training times averaged 2.5+ years.

 

[Shikaka]

Meanwhile first facility tower washouts get terminated or flight data...

 

[CaptainObvious]

Meanwhile first facility tower washouts get terminated or flight data...

Where is there to go if you wash from a 5 up/down or a 4 tower? If you can’t make it there you shouldn’t be doing the job

 

[Shikaka]

Where is there to go if you wash from a 5 up/down or a 4 tower? If you can’t make it there you shouldn’t be doing the job

Multiple ways to approach that really. First off we're a level 5 doing about 300 ops a day, compared to BPT's 50 a day as a level 4.

In fact it would make sense as well to put tower washes into an enroute environment. We're in a job where our shit just runs full bore in certain situations and not in others. A dude working SFO or ATL can easily get his teeth kicked in at DVT and vise versa, same with N90 and working RHV so on and so on.

I just think it's a waste washing tower guys at their first facility, instead they might just function better at a center. In my experiences center guys are a 50/50 for tower anyway.