As much as we like to look down on level 5 tower only or up/downs the fact is that sometimes these places can get really complicated when it gets busy. So there are some who may struggle with the unpredictability of a level 5 but may flourish in a facility that is more structured like a 8 and up. Before I went FAA I worked contract for Midwest and I would hear stories about guys who would retire from level 10s and up and couldn't hack it being a contract facility because of the lack of structure. Just got to find the best fit for them but I don't believe you should get unlimited attempts to find that spot though.
Stuck in a holding pattern at a facility
- Thread starter colefinley
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As much as we like to look down on level 5 tower only or up/downs the fact is that sometimes these places can get really complicated when it gets busy. So there are some who may struggle with the unpredictability of a level 5 but may flourish in a facility that is more structured like a 8 and up. Before I went FAA I worked contract for Midwest and I would hear stories about guys who would retire from level 10s and up and couldn't hack it being a contract facility because of the lack of structure. Just got to find the best fit for them but I don't believe you should get unlimited attempts to find that spot though.
Yeah these vfr pilots and pop ups will get you hemmed up real quick if you arent on your game.
colefinley
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Try it in a contract tower with no radar display ?
Some GA pilots think their helping you out by lining their Skyhawk or Warrior up on a 10-15 mile final and letting you know that on initial contact, thinking their the only ones in the sky, let alone your airspace.
I have also heard the same thing.
CaptainObvious
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I’m not looking down on them. It’s something I’ve seen personally. I worked contract, 3 CTOs from VFR towers, some with radar some without. I saw it at the 7 up/down I started at before going enroute. It’s ridiculous if you think Joe Blow who couldn’t certify on GC at a level 5 would be able to handle the volume and complexity in the enroute environment. People think that enroute is just “hello, goodbye” type controlling, but should we waste time and resources training them if they can’t hack it?
Robert_Boucher
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Sure there are some 4/5 towers out there that stupid easy but there are a bunch flying under the can be more complex than higher level towers. I know there are some level 5s that do odo practice approaches to the primary runway all day with a pattern full, and helo transitions all going on at the same time. I sorta agree that if the FAA can send center washouts to a tower, why can't they send a tower wash out to a center.
Well
yeah there is little hope for you if you cant get through ground control lol. But I think we are generally speaking at those individuals who are skilled enough to make it through ground control. But I personally have no illusions about the complexity of the radar environment especially on a weather day. I'm definitely advocating for those individuals to get recycled to enroute. In other cases some controllers for so,e reason may get the radar flick better than the tower.
Yeah man I worked at COU with midwest and we didnt have a radar; and when Mizzou had a big football game.....that place got dumb lol!
That's the catch of it, some people just have their niche. A more structured and planned out environment might be better than a group of asshats cutting off your 737s on final all day.
Obviously there are plenty of center guys who come down to the towers and still have no business in this career as well. But why is there only a second chance on one side vs the other?
Obviously there are plenty of center guys who come down to the towers and still have no business in this career as well. But why is there only a second chance on one side vs the other?
Depends on the low level tower. I've been at a class C level 5 and class D level 5. The class D did all that ODO crap and had a flight school. Most days it was cake but a lot of days you could get beat up too and have 500-600 ops days. At the class C level 5 tower it was mostly air carriers and corporate jets. Mostly professional pilots. It was pretty much around 250-300 ops days all the time. So the same volume of traffic doing the same stuff every day. Basically the class C level 5 was much easier to work then the class D level 5 tower. The class D tower was a pain. But the slow bad weather days when no one flew were AWESOME!
And it's different for each place too, we're class C level 5. We can easily get beat up on a normal day by the flight schools mixing with our carrier traffic and biz jets. For funniness sake, when Burning Man kicks off this place can kick everyone in the teeth, especially when Joe Smo and the Experimentals (band name taken) decide to touch and goes as well.
boots
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That's what the person who got picked up from your facility a panel or two ago has to look forward to when he gets here ?
Being a center wash out at D2 and working as a CPC at 2 small towers I will say this. No 7 or below tower is harder then D sides at a center. Worse case its even and some towers are actually easier. There are cake towers. There are no cake centers. But center and tower are also completely different mindsets and skill sets. So maybe what I just said is BS lol. End of the day its the person. Just speaking from personal experience
Black Rock City!!!! Thats when RNO got cracking! That and air races. Miss that place. But trust me. Like everyone else I know that left RNO. You don't know how good you have it and how laid back the traffic really is till you leave. When you finally go to a level 10+ facility you will understand. Just have to experience it.
Don't get me wrong. RNO is legitimate and a great place to learn how to be a tower controller. Especially if a busy class B is what your goal is
Going 7 or 8 is perfect. Going to a 6 won't make you better and a 9 will possibly test you to the point of stressing out. 7 or 8 you will get better without being very stressed out. Plus if you went to a well staffed one you would be able to bounce quick for a 10+ after, gotta play it right tho!
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