Support Staff positions, and release dates?

[Kappa468]

If you were to get a temp staff/support job, what happens with NATCA seniority? The bid says it’s still good time because it’s temp even though you don’t need to maintain currency. It’s still a NATCA BUE position so I have no reason to believe I wouldn’t continue to accrue seniority for when I go back to the floor, right?

This is from the constitution-

Section 4. For bargaining unit members in other than the ATCS/TMC/NOTAM/FSS bargaining units, following the conclusion of a temporary promotion or detail outside the bargaining unit, the employee's previous Union determined seniority will be reinstated as though the employee had never left the bargaining unit position previously assigned without accruing seniority for the duration of the temporary promotion or detail.

Is the SSS the ATCS bargaining unit or another one for the purposes of accruing seniority?

Thanks

 

[the inquirer]

If you were to get a temp staff/support job, what happens with NATCA seniority? The bid says it’s still good time because it’s temp even though you don’t need to maintain currency. It’s still a NATCA BUE position so I have no reason to believe I wouldn’t continue to accrue seniority for when I go back to the floor, right?

This is from the constitution-

Section 4. For bargaining unit members in other than the ATCS/TMC/NOTAM/FSS bargaining units, following the conclusion of a temporary promotion or detail outside the bargaining unit, the employee's previous Union determined seniority will be reinstated as though the employee had never left the bargaining unit position previously assigned without accruing seniority for the duration of the temporary promotion or detail.

Is the SSS the ATCS bargaining unit or another one for the purposes of accruing seniority?

Thanks

It’s a bue position. Normal seniority practices. We had a guy on a 2 year temp staff job then came back and business as usual.

 

[Move78]

If you were to get a temp staff/support job, what happens with NATCA seniority? The bid says it’s still good time because it’s temp even though you don’t need to maintain currency. It’s still a NATCA BUE position so I have no reason to believe I wouldn’t continue to accrue seniority for when I go back to the floor, right?

This is from the constitution-

Section 4. For bargaining unit members in other than the ATCS/TMC/NOTAM/FSS bargaining units, following the conclusion of a temporary promotion or detail outside the bargaining unit, the employee's previous Union determined seniority will be reinstated as though the employee had never left the bargaining unit position previously assigned without accruing seniority for the duration of the temporary promotion or detail.

Is the SSS the ATCS bargaining unit or another one for the purposes of accruing seniority?

Thanks

You just lose the tiebreaker. You don’t lose time though

 

[Phillytroll69]

Got lucky with mine. No DUIs, medical wasn't in (immediate) jeopardy, my old facility was 804'd so they could release plenty of people, and my new facility got a new ATM who was looking to fill all available positions at their facility. I mean, I'm a true American (fat and lazy) so medical would eventually bite me in the ass at some point, but nothing disqualifying currently.

Ibreezeby if you really want to try for it, your best bet is to kiss as much ass as possible and fight for someone to fight for a waiver for you. I'm only a year and half in to the SSS position but I love it so far; occasionally engaging work and a normal work schedule. If controlling isn't the be-all end-all for you, go for it.

Somewhat related: I recently spoke with a center FacRep about a SSS opening at their facility and they said - unless someone's medical is in direct Jeopardy - controllers at centers don't bother with the support specialist position anymore because they don't want to give up OT and shift diff, and apparently they can easily get age extensions for a few years now. Blew my mind; I think this is a cherry gig.

It is a nice gig at 1% instead of 1.7%...

 

[blarg]

This is interesting. I've always understood that supes and OMs at centers count as good time (even if you aren't current. I've never heard of OMs maintaining currency anyway), but ATMs are not because good time is only covered to 2nd levels above air traffic controllers:

5 U.S. Code § 8415 - Computation of basic annuity

www.law.cornell.edu

(f)The annuity of an air traffic controller or former air traffic controller retiring under section 8412(a) is computed under subsection (a), except that if the individual has at least 5 years of service in any combination as—
(1)
an air traffic controller as defined by section 2109(1)(A)(i);
(2)
a first level supervisor of an air traffic controller as defined by section 2109(1)(A)(i); or
(3)
a second level supervisor of an air traffic controller as defined by section 2109(1)(A)(i);
so much of the annuity as is computed with respect to such type of service shall be computed by multiplying 1 7/10 percent of the individual’s average pay by the years of such service.

However. If you look up the definition of air traffic controller in 2109:

5 U.S. Code § 2109 - Air traffic controller; Secretary

www.law.cornell.edu

(1)“air traffic controller” or “controller” means a civilian employee of the Department of Transportation or the Department of Defense who, in an air traffic control facility or flight service station facility—
(A)is actively engaged—
(i)
in the separation and control of air traffic; or
(ii)
in providing preflight, inflight, or airport advisory service to aircraft operators; or
(B)
is the immediate supervisor of any employee described in subparagraph (A);

So because of (B) in 2109 front line supe is defined as an air traffic controller. And a second level supervisor of an air traffic controller is good time. The first level supe of a first level supe is OM, and the second level supe of a supe is the ATM. So have ATMs not been getting good time for their retirements when they should be? Or did I just hear ATMs don't get good time and that was just incorrect?

 

[Soul_Controller]

ATM is good time if your facility doesn't have an OM position.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

It is a nice gig at 1% instead of 1.7%...

1.1% if you retire at 62 with at least 20 years; my 30 year mark I'll be 60.5 so it'll likely make sense for me to work the extra year and a half for 3% more in my pension (unless my wife kicks it into high gear when she finishes her MBA in the spring). Plus I still get to keep those few years I had at 1.7%.

Missing the 1.7% going forward is definitely a big downside, but I'm 4 years removed from the floor now and I'm 60lbs healthier, get to see my wife and dog, get every weekend and holiday off, get all that free early release leave, and don't have to be paranoid every time I take some NyQuil. I might end up working for 5 more years than I would have as a controller, but I like the work I'm doing and the people I'm working with. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Geeare27]

ATM is good time if your facility doesn't have an OM position.

Exactly this. ATM is good time at some facilities and not others.

 

[blarg]

ATM is good time if your facility doesn't have an OM position.

Right, but I'm talking about centers where there are. The way they have defined "air traffic controller" to include supes would mean their 2nd level supe is the ATM even when there is an OM. Not sure if that was the intent, but that's the way it's written. IMO if an ATM at one facility can be good time, and ATM at any facility should be good time. Makes no sense that it's good time at a smaller facility, but not at the larger ones that are even more challenging to run.

 

[GulfCharlie]

1.1% if you retire at 62 with at least 20 years; my 30 year mark I'll be 60.5 so it'll likely make sense for me to work the extra year and a half for 3% more in my pension (unless my wife kicks it into high gear when she finishes her MBA in the spring). Plus I still get to keep those few years I had at 1.7%.

Missing the 1.7% going forward is definitely a big downside, but I'm 4 years removed from the floor now and I'm 60lbs healthier, get to see my wife and dog, get every weekend and holiday off, get all that free early release leave, and don't have to be paranoid every time I take some NyQuil. I might end up working for 5 more years than I would have as a controller, but I like the work I'm doing and the people I'm working with. 🤷🏻‍♂️

This is what people fail to realise. Talking to planes is great, and a lot of us cannot imagine doing anything else BUT the quality of life is something you did not realise you were missing. Regular sleep, a better or long weekend, and of course family. Sure the sacrifice of 1.7% is worth it, and most still miss talking to planes, but this is time you do not get back.

There are a “million” jobs in the agency that contribute to the safety of the NAS and still have the same validation at the end of the day. Your personal health though is more important than just talking to planes, you will longer and be far happier.

Hopefully people understand one day that they are killing themselves for the agency with hardly anything in return.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

Hopefully people understand one day that they are killing themselves for the agency with hardly anything in return.

The saddest part is I think some people fully understand that, but still insist on wearing it as a badge of honor.

 

[Motodog]

The saddest part is I think some people fully understand that, but still insist on wearing it as a badge of honor.

Truth in that. Hearing pilots ‘brag’ about how many time zones they crossed in a 4 day trip. Int’l way worse. Meanwhile their hair is going gray, face all sunk in. Ours is not that different. I guess it’s all relative, misery loves company

 

[FightingIrish2012]

1.1% if you retire at 62 with at least 20 years; my 30 year mark I'll be 60.5 so it'll likely make sense for me to work the extra year and a half for 3% more in my pension (unless my wife kicks it into high gear when she finishes her MBA in the spring). Plus I still get to keep those few years I had at 1.7%.

Missing the 1.7% going forward is definitely a big downside, but I'm 4 years removed from the floor now and I'm 60lbs healthier, get to see my wife and dog, get every weekend and holiday off, get all that free early release leave, and don't have to be paranoid every time I take some NyQuil. I might end up working for 5 more years than I would have as a controller, but I like the work I'm doing and the people I'm working with. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Any update on the purple book?

 

[Phillytroll69]

1.1% if you retire at 62 with at least 20 years; my 30 year mark I'll be 60.5 so it'll likely make sense for me to work the extra year and a half for 3% more in my pension (unless my wife kicks it into high gear when she finishes her MBA in the spring). Plus I still get to keep those few years I had at 1.7%.

Missing the 1.7% going forward is definitely a big downside, but I'm 4 years removed from the floor now and I'm 60lbs healthier, get to see my wife and dog, get every weekend and holiday off, get all that free early release leave, and don't have to be paranoid every time I take some NyQuil. I might end up working for 5 more years than I would have as a controller, but I like the work I'm doing and the people I'm working with. 🤷🏻‍♂️

What's the pay difference or did you retain

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

What's the pay difference or did you retain

I got lucky. I was a CPC at a 5, got a Support Specialist position at another 5, then after 2 years experience there I got a Support Specialist position at a 12.

Any update on the purple book?

I'm excommunicado and the people that kept me in the loop at the beginning were reprimanded for keeping a non-member in the loop. Last bit I heard was to expect some kind of an update at the end of the year. 🤷🏻‍♂️

If you hear something, let me know; my days of rattling cages and barking up trees are over.

 

[32andBelow]

I'm excommunicado and the people that kept in the loop at the beginning were reprimanded for keeping a non-member in the loop. Last bit 3 heard was to expect some kind of an update at the end of the year. 🤷🏻‍♂️

If you hear something, let me know; my days of rattling cages and barking up trees are over.

I’m in NATCA I give you a guest pass 1 week

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I'm excommunicado and the people that kept me in the loop at the beginning were reprimanded for keeping a non-member in the loop. Last bit I heard was to expect some kind of an update at the end of the year. 🤷🏻‍♂️

If you hear something, let me know; my days of rattling cages and barking up trees are over.

Can’t believe it could bleed into 2025, that’s partly why even if they negotiate the slate book I don’t expect raises to take effect until 2027, I can’t imagine whatever they get then will be worth the wait.