Training hold

phrenetik

Member
Messages
16
I'm wondering how I'm going to get a training mid now that we're about to start training and I'm on my last 2 r sides. They're still very against mixing crews so I'm not sure how that's gonna work. I feel like any newer r sides will be cheated and will probably feel scared if traffic returns to normal levels in 1-2 years because 6 of 8 of our sectors are a joke now compared to what they used to be. Luckily my last 2 still have tons of traffic to make the training decent.
 

Type1atc

Active Member
Messages
44
I'm wondering how I'm going to get a training mid now that we're about to start training and I'm on my last 2 r sides. They're still very against mixing crews so I'm not sure how that's gonna work. I feel like any newer r sides will be cheated and will probably feel scared if traffic returns to normal levels in 1-2 years because 6 of 8 of our sectors are a joke now compared to what they used to be. Luckily my last 2 still have tons of traffic to make the training decent.
Last two ATC12 facilites I’ve been at I didn’t work a mid until after I got checked out. And then literally got CIC the day shift before my mid to make me legal with how it was scheduled. It shouldn’t be a big deal, just have a Bang to sip on so you don’t fall asleep.
 

CaptainObvious

Forum Sage
Messages
1,266
I'm wondering how I'm going to get a training mid now that we're about to start training and I'm on my last 2 r sides. They're still very against mixing crews so I'm not sure how that's gonna work. I feel like any newer r sides will be cheated and will probably feel scared if traffic returns to normal levels in 1-2 years because 6 of 8 of our sectors are a joke now compared to what they used to be. Luckily my last 2 still have tons of traffic to make the training decent.
Guess it depends on where you’re at. I’m doing my mid this week and we have almost normal traffic
 

spider

Forum Sage
Messages
350
Ahhhhh. The old “trainees should pass breaks so they can work all the traffic because the CPCs want and deserve a break more” argument. Well played
Personally, I don’t care who wants a break. You want a break? Take a break. But if it’s a trainee who is struggling then you should sit as long as you can if you’re getting time. That’s your free time to get better. If a struggling trainee decides to take as many breaks as possible during their seasoning day then there’s really not much sympathy if you’re running low on hours and can’t get recommended.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
2,575
Get your alone time to get better. You should be doing extra long pushes as a low seniority cpc (or trainee that can do clearance delivery or whatever it is in center)
I’ve been seasoning for the last year

Last two ATC12 facilites I’ve been at I didn’t work a mid until after I got checked out. And then literally got CIC the day shift before my mid to make me legal with how it was scheduled. It shouldn’t be a big deal, just have a Bang to sip on so you don’t fall asleep.
We work mids all throughout training. But not all areas do. Guess it depends on how busy your area is on the mid
 

CaptainObvious

Forum Sage
Messages
1,266
Personally, I don’t care who wants a break. You want a break? Take a break. But if it’s a trainee who is struggling then you should sit as long as you can if you’re getting time. That’s your free time to get better. If a struggling trainee decides to take as many breaks as possible during their seasoning day then there’s really not much sympathy if you’re running low on hours and can’t get recommended.
On the flip side, the argument that they should “season” and pass breaks merely on the fact that they’re a trainee is a scam so CPCs can finagle more breaks
 
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spider

Forum Sage
Messages
350
On the flip side, the argument that they should “season” and pass breaks merely on the fact that they’re a trainee is a scam so CPCs can finagle more breaks
Do whatever your career can stand. All I’m saying is that seasoning time is free time to get better at the fundamentals. Nobody will give so much as a fart if you’re a trainee approaching the end of hours and you’re still struggling with phraseology.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
2,575
Do whatever your career can stand. All I’m saying is that seasoning time is free time to get better at the fundamentals. Nobody will give so much as a fart if you’re a trainee approaching the end of hours and you’re still struggling with phraseology.
I don’t think anyone here is struggling with phraseology
 

bravoindia

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
119
Facility
A80 Atlanta Tracon
We want trainees that want to train. No we want you to season. No we want you to be happy to have a job.
You should be happy to have a job. You should be upset NATCA doesn’t have most of your answers, there’s a time and a place to get time on your own. You definitely should want to train so you can get done get that CPC and some extra cash. First time I’ve slightly agreed with 32.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
2,575
You should be happy to have a job. You should be upset NATCA doesn’t have most of your answers, there’s a time and a place to get time on your own. You definitely should want to train so you can get done get that CPC and some extra cash. First time I’ve slightly agreed with 32.
Same things I’ve been saying the whole time
 

Hyooz

Active Member
Messages
45
I think everyone is happy to have a job and being paid during this time.

But that doesn't mean the way trainees have been treated isn't pretty ridiculous.

I also find it silly to be super concerned about someone certifying now and traffic coming back in 1-3 years. Will it come back? Sure, but it'll come back gradually. By the time it's back to full, people will have gradually worked more and more traffic and be fine. It's not like it's going to tick over to 2023 and suddenly be back to pre-covid levels overnight and crush people.
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,176
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
So we’re about to resume training, and emphasized is that guidance from the FAA is to “train and certify on current traffic levels.” At current levels N90’s staffing woes will be solved in about 3 months and god help anyone flying into NY after traffic gets back up towards normal levels. Our busiest days now have a 20-hour push.

Will it come back? Sure, but it'll come back gradually. By the time it's back to full, people will have gradually worked more and more traffic and be fine.
In the AF I saw first hand what happened when trainees were certified during slow times and then traffic picked back up. It resulted in the squadron commander calling the RAPCON saying next time just give them the freq and they’ll sequence themselves. Someone who is fine working a 20 rate does not mean they’re fine working a 60+ rate no matter how gradually it builds up to that.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
2,575
So we’re about to resume training, and emphasized is that guidance from the FAA is to “train and certify on current traffic levels.” At current levels N90’s staffing woes will be solved in about 3 months and god help anyone flying into NY after traffic gets back up towards normal levels. Our busiest days now have a 20-hour push.
You are probably the one facility this is going to be a big problem. New York is basically closed and will get busy really fast once the quarantines and stuff get lifted.

The rest of us are going to be much more gradual and manageable. I don’t know what the n90 solution is
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,176
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
You are probably the one facility this is going to be a big problem. New York is basically closed and will get busy really fast once the quarantines and stuff get lifted.

The rest of us are going to be much more gradual and manageable. I don’t know what the n90 solution is
My solution is to have every trainee and a couple monkeys checked out within the next 6 months and get an err in before anyone retires
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
2,575
My solution is to have every trainee and a couple monkeys checked out within the next 6 months and get an err in before anyone retires
That checks. They are just gonna have to go more fam sims and possibly have fam training when it picks up. I don’t know what else they could do. Having everyone sit out for 2 more years isn’t a solution either.
 
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