Use or Lose (HEROES ACT) HR 6800

[GulfCharlie]

Having a facility discussion about this, which I cannot verify the authenticity of at the moment, but has anyone read anything in the HEROES Act HR 6800? I have briefly skimmed over it and see nothing about the restoration of "Use or Lose," does anyone else see anything about it?

Also after you have read this referencing the third paragraph, my interpretation of this is if you explain that you did not cancelled leave for "vacation or due to COVID" but merely to either "help the facility, personal preference, or some other logical reason" then it should be restored. /discuss

 

[Phillytroll69]

Unfortunately when I read it-a federal employee doctor unable to take leave due to hospital requiring work will have it restored if it was denied.

If leave was denied or unable to be approved it will be restored.


That's how I read it not how I feel

 

[GulfCharlie]

Unfortunately when I read it-a federal employee doctor unable to take leave due to hospital requiring work will have it restored if it was denied.

If leave was denied or unable to be approved it will be restored.


That's how I read it not how I feel

There are quite a few contradictions in it, which leaves me wondering.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I do not think it will apply since the FAA never said leave must be cancelled due to the pandemic. I may be remembering wrong, but they have said they will honor approved leave during the reduced scheduling. NATCA and the FAA pushed for people to volunteer to cancel leave to stay on the Covid schedule, but didn’t force them. I’m sure they will fight it like the leave comes out of their pockets.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

This will be interesting, lots of people will be requesting spot leave in December if no leave extension is worked out.

 

[Dousand24]

FAA told NATCA use or lose isn’t rolling over. It’s not like you couldn’t take leave during this anyways....

 

[32andBelow]

FAA told NATCA use or lose isn’t rolling over. It’s not like you couldn’t take leave during this anyways....

And you can take it on your admin days.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

FAA told NATCA use or lose isn’t rolling over. It’s not like you couldn’t take leave during this anyways....

We will see if this plays out, I think it will create a interesting dynamic if this is the case. It's smart to get to use or lose close to retirement, and it's always smart to carry over a few weeks of leave each year once you have some years in, but there is no true advantage to constantly hover at "use or lose" for most of your career. It mostly just means you didn't take enough leave in your 20's, where it was hardest to come by and you probably would have had more fun on it then taking random spot leave days on your Tuesday so you don't "lose" it the second half of your career.

Almost all the people I seen hit use or lose younger then 40 are needlessly obsessed over it, and are the highest level of credit leave manipulators, getting AL coded as SL, and other minor leave related scams. They are also used to getting everything they ever wanted leave related as they are willing to put hours of effort into arranging it. I can see almost all these people running it up to 400+ hours during this, with the 100% confident expectation that the overage of leave will be extended without any thought of the alternative as they were beat down on a leave related issue before. If it turns out in December that leave will not carry over, and NATCA states they agree or even just won't commit to fight it at the highest level, I can't wait to see them melt down and talk for the next 20 years of the "thousands of dollars" of leave they had stolen.

 

[32andBelow]

We will see if this plays out, I think it will create a interesting dynamic if this is the case. It's smart to get to use or lose close to retirement, and it's always smart to carry over a few weeks of leave each year once you have some years in, but there is no true advantage to constantly hover at "use or lose" for most of your career. It mostly just means you didn't take enough leave in your 20's, where it was hardest to come by and you probably would have had more fun on it then taking random spot leave days on your Tuesday so you don't "lose" it the second half of your career.

Almost all the people I seen hit use or lose younger then 40 are needlessly obsessed over it, and are the highest level of credit leave manipulators, getting AL coded as SL, and other minor leave related scams. They are also used to getting everything they ever wanted leave related as they are willing to put hours of effort into arranging it. I can see almost all these people running it up to 400+ hours during this, with the 100% confident expectation that the overage of leave will be extended without any thought of the alternative as they were beat down on a leave related issue before. If it turns out in December that leave will not carry over, and NATCA states they agree or even just won't commit to fight it at the highest level, I can't wait to see them melt down and talk for the next 20 years of the "thousands of dollars" of leave they had stolen.

There’s absolutely no case that you are unable to take leave this year. I know it sucks to take it when your off anyways but it is what it is.

 

[theflyingpig]

There’s absolutely no case that you are unable to take leave this year. I know it sucks to take it when your off anyways but it is what it is.

not true

edit: there's more but I'm not posting its. facrep won't fight itt either because she don't want the facility to come off the 10/5

 

[spider]

not true

edit: there's more but I'm not posting its. facrep won't fight itt either because she don't want the facility to come off the 10/5

Was that leave that you bid or spot leave? That's the only thing matters. Unless you were specifically told by management to cancel your leave then you will have no case.

 

[jdatc]

not true

edit: there's more but I'm not posting its. facrep won't fight itt either because she don't want the facility to come off the 10/5

Hmm. Lose some leave and work more or stay on 10/5. Wow. Tough decision.

 

[TimShady]

We will see if this plays out, I think it will create a interesting dynamic if this is the case. It's smart to get to use or lose close to retirement, and it's always smart to carry over a few weeks of leave each year once you have some years in, but there is no true advantage to constantly hover at "use or lose" for most of your career. It mostly just means you didn't take enough leave in your 20's, where it was hardest to come by and you probably would have had more fun on it then taking random spot leave days on your Tuesday so you don't "lose" it the second half of your career.

Almost all the people I seen hit use or lose younger then 40 are needlessly obsessed over it, and are the highest level of credit leave manipulators, getting AL coded as SL, and other minor leave related scams. They are also used to getting everything they ever wanted leave related as they are willing to put hours of effort into arranging it. I can see almost all these people running it up to 400+ hours during this, with the 100% confident expectation that the overage of leave will be extended without any thought of the alternative as they were beat down on a leave related issue before. If it turns out in December that leave will not carry over, and NATCA states they agree or even just won't commit to fight it at the highest level, I can't wait to see them melt down and talk for the next 20 years of the "thousands of dollars" of leave they had stolen.

You have a very odd hostility toward people who have a lot of leave saved, to the point you are quoting hypothetical future meltdowns, lol.

I currently have 114 hours of use or lose. I’ve known all along that there wasn’t any guarantee of restored leave. The way I saw was I could either burn the leave when I’m sitting at home anyway, or maybe they’ll let me roll over more than 240. There wasn’t really a downside. I’ll use what leave I can the remainder of the year and lose the rest. Who cares? I’ve had a ridiculous amount of time off this year.

 

[32andBelow]

not true

edit: there's more but I'm not posting its. facrep won't fight itt either because she don't want the facility to come off the 10/5

You can use leave during the 10. That’s the point.

 

[PushingTin]

Almost all the people I seen hit use or lose younger then 40 are needlessly obsessed over it, and are the highest level of credit leave manipulators, getting AL coded as SL, and other minor leave related scams. They are also used to getting everything they ever wanted leave related as they are willing to put hours of effort into arranging it.

With the caveat thatbits totally legal to do this, I 100% agree w you. Most people who are perpetually in use or lose status are obsessed with how they rig their vast complex web of schedule scams , so when something with so much variability like this hits theyve been thrown into a state of panic and anxiety.

Kind of like the people obsessed w having perfect credit. I dont mean credit to get the best rates and have no "baddies" on their report, but literally obsessed with having an 850 or whatever it is. Same w extreme couponers, etc. Takes on a life of its own. It's totally legal, but it's a drain on the facility because these are the same people who have at least 1 (often several) request in wmt everyday and are obnoxiously arguing about deep level shift swaps and other manipulations almost every day. Annoying people. When they have tantrums you love to see it!

Same people bid max primetime, then Max additional, then also fill the schedule 90 days out, then try like hell to convert it all to credit. Same people that give zero fucks about banging out to meet some trollop off tinder - even after 10 days off in this Covid schedule- , leaving you do 3.5 hour sessions with min staffinf in the middle of July.

 

[GulfCharlie]

On a regional telecon, apparently this does not apply to use and no leave extension will be granted short of it being put into the HEROES Act

 

[PushingTin]

On a regional telecon, apparently this does not apply to use and no leave extension will be granted short of it being put into the HEROES Act

is hazard pay effectively dead in this next round? pretty sure it isnt in the republican/White House stimulus , altho thats not the final version that will pass.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Hazard pay don’t look like it’s happening, I wish NATCA was working on it more (unless they are keeping it top secret). But all they did is say that they support the democrat version of the HEROS ACT which would include hazard pay, but that was never going to pass with $1.5 trillion of non-COVID related political pork in it.

 

[James]

I'm guessing that government buckles on the leave issue no matter what they've been saying. Just my opinion.

 

[mnsalty]

We will see if this plays out, I think it will create a interesting dynamic if this is the case. It's smart to get to use or lose close to retirement, and it's always smart to carry over a few weeks of leave each year once you have some years in, but there is no true advantage to constantly hover at "use or lose" for most of your career. It mostly just means you didn't take enough leave in your 20's, where it was hardest to come by and you probably would have had more fun on it then taking random spot leave days on your Tuesday so you don't "lose" it the second half of your career.

Almost all the people I seen hit use or lose younger then 40 are needlessly obsessed over it, and are the highest level of credit leave manipulators, getting AL coded as SL, and other minor leave related scams. They are also used to getting everything they ever wanted leave related as they are willing to put hours of effort into arranging it. I can see almost all these people running it up to 400+ hours during this, with the 100% confident expectation that the overage of leave will be extended without any thought of the alternative as they were beat down on a leave related issue before. If it turns out in December that leave will not carry over, and NATCA states they agree or even just won't commit to fight it at the highest level, I can't wait to see them melt down and talk for the next 20 years of the "thousands of dollars" of leave they had stolen.

Yup. And until someone starts to give a shit about trainees- everyone will have to forgive me for not giving a shit about use or lose.
There’s no excuse for anyone ending with excess use or lose this year - except maybe in the event of someone being on medical leave and getting EA. Even then, your AL wouldn’t be denied. “Sorry folks. Til this is over that’s how it is.” I’m surprised anyone gave an update considering nobody thinks a training update is in order either. 0 $hits given.