you can’t be fired twice

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squab_captain

Member
Messages
23
Unfortunately they have made up their mind about you. There is pretty much nothing that can be done. Yell, scream, vent, and call it unfair, then figure out another career and keep your nose clean till 2025 and reapply again. Or not, choice is yours
I agree
Dude if you still want to be ATC, you're better off joining the US Army/US Air Force or even AdvancedATC. Every time you post here, you're slightly proving that you don't care enough.
fun fact: I rejected a reservation from the US Army for 15Q ATC to pursue ATC in the US Air Force. I decided the air force had better job prospect into the FAA. When I was about to go to MEPS, a TOL came from the summer 2021 bid. I told the air force recruiters of my intentions to attend the academy in okc. Man o man were they persuasive to keep me. In hindsight that was a fantastic moment to leverage myself into the ATC specialty. From what I’ve heard you can’t guarantee the job you get in the air force, but you also hear all kinds of things on the internet…
 

skykid11

Member
Messages
50
I agree

fun fact: I rejected a reservation from the US Army for 15Q ATC to pursue ATC in the US Air Force. I decided the air force had better job prospect into the FAA. When I was about to go to MEPS, a TOL came from the summer 2021 bid. I told the air force recruiters of my intentions to attend the academy in okc. Man o man were they persuasive to keep me. In hindsight that was a fantastic moment to leverage myself into the ATC specialty. From what I’ve heard you can’t guarantee the job you get in the air force, but you also hear all kinds of things on the internet…
You can get a guaranteed job in the USAF, especially with ATC.
 

Smitty

💩💩💩🚽
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
214
As of right now I choose not to post my 2,500-word response, but I assure you that it included reasonable explanations for each of the bullet points above as well as positive references from the very same places of employment. My response goes as far as to disprove small details such as being terminated in March 2022 when in actuality it was April 2022 (it matters because I had the security interview on April 1 when termination was not disclosed) and also proving that I am in fact eligible for rehire. If you consider the information above, sure it looks bad and I understand why it raises a flag.

A couple of years ago in England I was a bartender and had some misfortune that led to being fired. Wasn’t even going to include it on e-Qip, but because I used it as three years’ work experience instead of my British bachelors’ degree that had not yet been evaluated by a third party, I disclosed it.

Feel free to ask questions and let me know your thoughts. Much love

can u plz post the 2500 word response? i think it would be helpful to the community to provide context on this tyrant suitability adjudicator's unfortunate decision!

what happened at the bar? do u have a british accent? we need more information dude. this could be turned into a podcast or vlog. id watch 💯 👍


United Kingdom Uk GIF by MotoGP



p.s. “Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.”
 

Alphamale

Member
Messages
16
I see this all the time, where is it from?

I hear you and there’s something to be said about volume and equal opportunity. To reiterate I furnished proof that me being ineligible for rehire was false
Let me tell you something buddy, there is nothing equal opportunity about the faa…..it’s all luck of the draw in this agency
 

Mr. Miner

Trusted Contributor
Messages
232
your analogy bears no semblance to my situation, but I’m not surprised because to you I’m a bitching schizophrenic criminal lmao.

Is the kid’s sibling a boy? Older or younger? Who is grounding the kid? What was the reason for the punch? Has it happened before? Will the kid provide witness testimony? By being good do you mean that the kid walked an elderly across the street or cured cancer?

I’m the one with the ridiculous argument?
For the sake of any potential future OTJIs, I hope you don't get picked up on any future bids
 

eltors0

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
88
Facility
CLE Cleveland Tower
I agree

fun fact: I rejected a reservation from the US Army for 15Q ATC to pursue ATC in the US Air Force. I decided the air force had better job prospect into the FAA. When I was about to go to MEPS, a TOL came from the summer 2021 bid. I told the air force recruiters of my intentions to attend the academy in okc. Man o man were they persuasive to keep me. In hindsight that was a fantastic moment to leverage myself into the ATC specialty. From what I’ve heard you can’t guarantee the job you get in the air force, but you also hear all kinds of things on the internet…
Here I thought I’ve heard every “I was about to join the military but…”. This is gold.
 

Phillytroll69

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
731
Facility
JNU Juneau Tower
I’m from the 2021 summer bid and this morning I was, “found unsuitable for FAA employment” because there is, “a history of issues related to pattern of misconduct or negligence in employment.” Sucks to be me, right? You are probably thinking, what did this guy do? Before this morning I thought of myself as a model citizen, never so much as been handed a speeding ticket. Actually I got one two weeks ago for going 40 mph in a 35 zone, but that is beside the point. I have a clean record and was forthcoming in my SF-86 on e-Qip. On June 24, 2022 a suitability adjudicator for the FAA notified me of an unfavorable suitability determination. They had not yet actioned it, but I was offered the opportunity to rebut the following charge.

Charge #1: Issues related to a pattern of misconduct or negligence in employment


  • In February 2020, you were terminated from Revolution after the following incidents occurred:
  • You had a verbal altercation with your kitchen manager and you disobeyed a request to discontinue taking food orders.
  • You had a verbal altercation with a customer regarding the quality of a drink you served the customer.
  • You were caught on video watching a game on your phone on a slow day.
  • In March 2022, you received a reprimand and a 5-day suspension for leaving packages at the end of driveways, in stairwells, and for not putting in the appropriate effort delivering packages while you were employed as a —— ————Transports (LHT), Inc., FedEx contractor.
  • In late March 2022, you were terminated from LHT after an additional complaint was sent to FedEx via video showing you throwing packages. Over the course of your employment at LHT, you received seven complaints for conduct and throwing packages. You Are not eligible for rehire.
You have demonstrated a pattern of misconduct or negligence as reflected in your employment history. For patterns, the conduct may begin prior to, but must extend into, the last 3 years

As of right now I choose not to post my 2,500-word response, but I assure you that it included reasonable explanations for each of the bullet points above as well as positive references from the very same places of employment. My response goes as far as to disprove small details such as being terminated in March 2022 when in actuality it was April 2022 (it matters because I had the security interview on April 1 when termination was not disclosed) and also proving that I am in fact eligible for rehire. If you consider the information above, sure it looks bad and I understand why it raises a flag. However I am having a hard time understanding why a reference-furnished response failed to mitigate the said red flag (unfavorable suitability determination). For example in a recommendation letter, the current general manager at Revolution (holding the position of the previous man that fired me) attested that my dismissal was uncalled for etc. My character is at stake because a suitability action looks at the character traits of a potential federal employee on a social and personal level rather than qualifications or skills. How can a praising account of the authority at Revolution still render an unfavorable outcome? You are not allowed to be fired more than once, but I believe to have negated at least one of two terminations.

Additionally I filed good references from other employers where I have worked over a year and where I work now. There is even a heartwarming account of a church official who speaks to my good character and voluntary service to the community.

The purpose of this post is not to seek help in order to reverse the decision. “Applicants to FAA positions do not have appeal rights.” I just find it incredible that in light of everything I am being placed in the same category as if I had a history of alcohol abuse, drugs, or gambling. If you sell drugs then you can’t work for the DEA. If you are guilty of embezzlement you can’t work in the treasury department. I was a bartender and delivery driver, what on earth has that got to do with ATCS in the FAA? I am, “debarred from FAA employment until July 3, 2025.”

My advice to people in the future is that if you can work the system, do it. Through research I found that in a security investigation they would have had to follow rigid steps to come to any conclusion much like a flow chart. Is this a fair outcome? Don’t trust security investigations or even medicals because you think you have a clean record. Omit if need be. After all the investigators are federal workers themselves. Just like controllers separate planes, you have hr specialists and adjudicators move down lists of criteria for a living. Don’t tell me there aren’t morons in towers and centers across the country doing the bare minimum for a decent paycheck. Hell I was about to be one (slightly joking aviation is my passion). Be proactive in avoiding specific scenarios. It’s guilty until proven innocent and proof of innocence is on you, not them.

A couple of years ago in England I was a bartender and had some misfortune that led to being fired. Wasn’t even going to include it on e-Qip, but because I used it as three years’ work experience instead of my British bachelors’ degree that had not yet been evaluated by a third party, I disclosed it. They really hit me with the, “lack of sound judgment and responsibility” copypasta. Bs. How can you say that to a person who is trusted to be pilot in command of a single piston airplane? Not to use qualifications as an excuse because, again, this is about character. However that is why I say the security investigation is black and white and that the investigator likely gives zero you know whats about the individual. I feel as though they did not consider the whole person.

Did I not provide enough information to mitigate the charge? If I had applied in the summer 2022 bid, could I have forfeited summer 2021 bid and been risk free of the first termination by the time the TOL comes in 2023 as that is outside the three year window?

Feel free to ask questions and let me know your thoughts. Much love
Sorry to hear this yelling in happens in fancy and dive places I've worked. The horrible thing here is that my facilities have been WORSE than the restaurants I've worked at and some hr person and vindictive ex gm made this decision
 

CoffeeIV

Trusted Contributor
Messages
119
2014-2018 the FAA hired over 7,800 controllers. I'm sure HR looks for any reason to weed out applicants when you have thousands applying.
 

WaywardSon

Active Member
Messages
127
There other part is there are just so many applicants in the pool and people waiting on classes that the FAA doesn’t need to deal with in depth investigations about anything really. I’m honestly surprised they even deal with Tier-2 from the mmpi. Probably due to legal medical reasons.
Well because the MMPI is not very accurate for one
 

Smitty

💩💩💩🚽
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
214
kick a man while he is down. Fantastic community guys, I’m so glad to be here and thanks for your opinion

Ignore the trolls, theyre super lame. Post your 2500 word response. If u passed the MMPI then you have already definitively proved you get along well w others and are a team player. We will crowd source you through this phalanx of Pete Boot-Edge-Edge's Praetorian Guard.

I've heard on national telecons the agency is literally starting to push its managers to get tested by 23& ME, so as to hopefully juice their diversity numbers and springboard careers. Yet they're closing the door on a good 🇬🇧 British lad? Pennywise 🤡 and pound foolish!

P.s. I'm Sam Fender's #1 fan 😊

aero-club-event.png
 
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Gadget

Member
Messages
3
I think we should all write our congresspersons about the disservice that was done to us as taxpayers to the federal government by squandering the skills of such a worthy candidate. Surely through collective action and solidarity we can force a corrective action to right this injustice.
 

hoody

Active Member
Messages
56
I’m from the 2021 summer bid and this morning I was, “found unsuitable for FAA employment” because there is, “a history of issues related to pattern of misconduct or negligence in employment.” Sucks to be me, right? You are probably thinking, what did this guy do? Before this morning I thought of myself as a model citizen, never so much as been handed a speeding ticket. Actually I got one two weeks ago for going 40 mph in a 35 zone, but that is beside the point. I have a clean record and was forthcoming in my SF-86 on e-Qip. On June 24, 2022 a suitability adjudicator for the FAA notified me of an unfavorable suitability determination. They had not yet actioned it, but I was offered the opportunity to rebut the following charge.

Charge #1: Issues related to a pattern of misconduct or negligence in employment


  • In February 2020, you were terminated from Revolution after the following incidents occurred:
  • You had a verbal altercation with your kitchen manager and you disobeyed a request to discontinue taking food orders.
  • You had a verbal altercation with a customer regarding the quality of a drink you served the customer.
  • You were caught on video watching a game on your phone on a slow day.
  • In March 2022, you received a reprimand and a 5-day suspension for leaving packages at the end of driveways, in stairwells, and for not putting in the appropriate effort delivering packages while you were employed as a —— ————Transports (LHT), Inc., FedEx contractor.
  • In late March 2022, you were terminated from LHT after an additional complaint was sent to FedEx via video showing you throwing packages. Over the course of your employment at LHT, you received seven complaints for conduct and throwing packages. You Are not eligible for rehire.
You have demonstrated a pattern of misconduct or negligence as reflected in your employment history. For patterns, the conduct may begin prior to, but must extend into, the last 3 years

As of right now I choose not to post my 2,500-word response, but I assure you that it included reasonable explanations for each of the bullet points above as well as positive references from the very same places of employment. My response goes as far as to disprove small details such as being terminated in March 2022 when in actuality it was April 2022 (it matters because I had the security interview on April 1 when termination was not disclosed) and also proving that I am in fact eligible for rehire. If you consider the information above, sure it looks bad and I understand why it raises a flag. However I am having a hard time understanding why a reference-furnished response failed to mitigate the said red flag (unfavorable suitability determination). For example in a recommendation letter, the current general manager at Revolution (holding the position of the previous man that fired me) attested that my dismissal was uncalled for etc. My character is at stake because a suitability action looks at the character traits of a potential federal employee on a social and personal level rather than qualifications or skills. How can a praising account of the authority at Revolution still render an unfavorable outcome? You are not allowed to be fired more than once, but I believe to have negated at least one of two terminations.

Additionally I filed good references from other employers where I have worked over a year and where I work now. There is even a heartwarming account of a church official who speaks to my good character and voluntary service to the community.

The purpose of this post is not to seek help in order to reverse the decision. “Applicants to FAA positions do not have appeal rights.” I just find it incredible that in light of everything I am being placed in the same category as if I had a history of alcohol abuse, drugs, or gambling. If you sell drugs then you can’t work for the DEA. If you are guilty of embezzlement you can’t work in the treasury department. I was a bartender and delivery driver, what on earth has that got to do with ATCS in the FAA? I am, “debarred from FAA employment until July 3, 2025.”

My advice to people in the future is that if you can work the system, do it. Through research I found that in a security investigation they would have had to follow rigid steps to come to any conclusion much like a flow chart. Is this a fair outcome? Don’t trust security investigations or even medicals because you think you have a clean record. Omit if need be. After all the investigators are federal workers themselves. Just like controllers separate planes, you have hr specialists and adjudicators move down lists of criteria for a living. Don’t tell me there aren’t morons in towers and centers across the country doing the bare minimum for a decent paycheck. Hell I was about to be one (slightly joking aviation is my passion). Be proactive in avoiding specific scenarios. It’s guilty until proven innocent and proof of innocence is on you, not them.

A couple of years ago in England I was a bartender and had some misfortune that led to being fired. Wasn’t even going to include it on e-Qip, but because I used it as three years’ work experience instead of my British bachelors’ degree that had not yet been evaluated by a third party, I disclosed it. They really hit me with the, “lack of sound judgment and responsibility” copypasta. Bs. How can you say that to a person who is trusted to be pilot in command of a single piston airplane? Not to use qualifications as an excuse because, again, this is about character. However that is why I say the security investigation is black and white and that the investigator likely gives zero you know whats about the individual. I feel as though they did not consider the whole person.

Did I not provide enough information to mitigate the charge? If I had applied in the summer 2022 bid, could I have forfeited summer 2021 bid and been risk free of the first termination by the time the TOL comes in 2023 as that is outside the three year window?

Feel free to ask questions and let me know your thoughts. Much love
 

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ATCJoe85

Trusted Contributor
Messages
468
"Explanation" of a bullet point or two sounds to me like "clarification", and is reasonable.
Start explaining three bullet points and I get skeptical, that ventures into the realm of "justification."

You have 5 bullet points which encompasses 2 verbal altercations, a 5 day suspension, and 7 additional complaints about conduct and throwing packages, one of which was documented via video.

And all that happened in a 2-3 year period leading up until March this year.

Maybe you think of yourself as a model citizen, maybe you even are, and maybe you're a generally good guy. But as far as an employee, you sound like you suck.

Your best bet (assuming you're not late 20s) is to establish a new trend until 2025.

After you get hired and complete training, you're welcome to be a sucky employee again.

🍻
 
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