Shoot The Breeze

[pedaNTIc]

Wasn’t the main base Bagram? Is that at KBL?

I've been to both a fair bit, and a few other airfields there, Bagram (OAIX) is about 30ish miles north of Kabul Int'l (OAKB). It has its own population, but it's a village compared to a city of several million. At Kabul the air base side is on the north side of the airport and runway, and the airport itself is on the north side of town, with not much north of it besides a mountain ridgeline. I'm sure that doing shuttle runs of personnel via helicopter or ground vehicle (when that was still possible) is much more convenient than the haul to Bagram, but now the security impacts of that decision are obvious.

If there's two huge things for me to criticize, closing Bagram when they did seems monumentally stupid now, that should have been the final departure location/last stand, it's much more defensible and has a pretty big prison onsite that was filled with unsavories who got liberated a couple days ago by their Taliban bros. Then it's also not only Uncle Joe sticking with the Dear Leader's Camp David negotiations, but then going with an arbitrary date of 9/11. Symbolic for us (and them, I suppose), but right smack dab in the middle of the summer fighting season, when the Taliban make the most gains. Should have withdrawn in the winter. Trump wanted to do it by last Christmas, which seemed really really premature, but at least it'd have been in winter (the only thing his plan had going for it).

 

[kombucha23]

Taliban forces estimated at 75k motivated, equipped and ready dudes.

ANA forces on paper around 3.5 times that but in all likelihood probably the same size, before desertions and taliban sympathizers are taken into account, on top of your points.

You do the math. I don't know how we thought anything different was gonna happen.

I think it was always inevitable and unfortunately so, but the Soviets tried it and we helped fund their failure, and now in return they've encouraged ours. If Trump had been president now, the exact same would be happening under the terms of his peace talks. The Taliban are largely leaving our forces alone and allowing what's happening at the airport, but nothing in his agreement said they had to slink off with their tails between their legs.

I can't seem to find whatever actual terms were signed (someone feel free to link if there's actual documents), but to me it basically seems like we were accepting the Taliban would return fully to power (summaries say things like "Taliban would ensure no transnational terrorism used Afghanistan as a network", "return to peace under an Islamic rule", etc.). So I think everyone knew what was likely to occur - most just didn't think the ANA would give up so rapidly and there would be time to adjust to the new reality.

 

[Super Salt]

View attachment 6509

The Grifting Queen never stops.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I think it was always inevitable and unfortunately so, but the Soviets tried it and we helped fund their failure, and now in return they've encouraged ours. If Trump had been president now, the exact same would be happening under the terms of his peace talks. The Taliban are largely leaving our forces alone and allowing what's happening at the airport, but nothing in his agreement said they had to slink off with their tails between their legs.

I can't seem to find whatever actual terms were signed (someone feel free to link if there's actual documents), but to me it basically seems like we were accepting the Taliban would return fully to power (summaries say things like "Taliban would ensure no transnational terrorism used Afghanistan as a network", "return to peace under an Islamic rule", etc.). So I think everyone knew what was likely to occur - most just didn't think the ANA would give up so rapidly and there would be time to adjust to the new reality.

I think the terms of the original agreement were there was to be power sharing, a transitional government to some new taliban included model etc.

They said nah.

I mean I remember having conversations with friends once the withdrawal was announced we all kind of agreed that ya, the US puppet gov wasn't gonna last long, and the taliban probably wouldn't abide by their agreement once we were out of the picture but I don't think anyone was thinking less than 30 days, but again this is just some dudes, some with times measured in months or years on the ground there, but no one really "in the know".

You'd think some people actually in the know high in the circles of power in DC and the pentagon may have had at least some clue as to what was going on though, how strong the talibs were, that they were keying up for a massive spring offensive, that most of the ANA would break instantaneously, etc and would have filled in the administration on this .

 

[32andBelow]

I think the terms of the original agreement were there was to be power sharing, a transitional government to some new taliban included model etc.

They said nah.

I mean I remember having conversations with friends once the withdrawal was announced we all kind of agreed that ya, the US puppet gov wasn't gonna last long, and the taliban probably wouldn't abide by their agreement once we were out of the picture but I don't think anyone was thinking less than 30 days, but again this is just some dudes, some with times measured in months or years on the ground there, but no one really "in the know".

You'd think some people actually in the know high in the circles of power in DC and the pentagon may have had at least some clue as to what was going on though, how strong the talibs were, that they were keying up for a massive spring offensive, that most of the ANA would break instantaneously, etc and would have filled in the administration on this .

I think the Afghan president just bailed and it fucked everything up. I read the taliban wanted him to be there for the transition. But he left. Which I don’t blame him cus the transition might have just been a beheading, but then it just left a power vacuum

 

[kombucha23]

Yeah, I know they announced they wouldn't accept a transitional gov, so they're just assuming power. The really interesting thing will be to see what happens now - lots of talk about splintering warlords and factions, civil war, etc. I'm sure the WH knew it was possible, but there were some posts around that the high-ups basically skimmed what they could off the budget and bailed as soon as they could, along with no actual income to the soldiers themselves. Until we hear differently, I'll accept that there was just no fathomable way anyone could've guessed the entire thing collapsed this fast - but that it was entirely known it would fall. Biden will end up regretting the Saigon rooftop comment, but I imagine they anticipated a few months of time left to get everyone out.

 

[32andBelow]

Yeah, I know they announced they wouldn't accept a transitional gov, so they're just assuming power. The really interesting thing will be to see what happens now - lots of talk about splintering warlords and factions, civil war, etc. I'm sure the WH knew it was possible, but there were some posts around that the high-ups basically skimmed what they could off the budget and bailed as soon as they could, along with no actual income to the soldiers themselves. Until we hear differently, I'll accept that there was just no fathomable way anyone could've guessed the entire thing collapsed this fast - but that it was entirely known it would fall. Biden will end up regretting the Saigon rooftop comment, but I imagine they anticipated a few months of time left to get everyone out.

The big one will be the translators and guys the us wants to give visas too. If the taliban doesn’t let them leave or start killing them well have a real problem

 

[Uglytaco]

I'd be curious to find out what the actual assessment was he was given. Because going from "Afghanistan will stand and fight" to "kabul will hold for 3 to 6 months" last week to OH FUCK ITS SAIGON 2021 YALL in like 37 days is wild.

Anyone with half a brain new it was gonna come crashing down as soon as we left, but damn ya big league fuckups going on here for sure.

Impeach impeach impeach all the waaaaaay

 

[Peter Gibbons]

The big one will be the translators and guys the us wants to give visas too. If the taliban doesn’t let them leave or start killing them well have a real problem

Sadly most of those dudes are screwed.

And no WE won't have a problem.... they will. WE will forget all about them by the next news cycle. Sad but true.

Yeah, I know they announced they wouldn't accept a transitional gov, so they're just assuming power. The really interesting thing will be to see what happens now - lots of talk about splintering warlords and factions, civil war, etc. I'm sure the WH knew it was possible, but there were some posts around that the high-ups basically skimmed what they could off the budget and bailed as soon as they could, along with no actual income to the soldiers themselves. Until we hear differently, I'll accept that there was just no fathomable way anyone could've guessed the entire thing collapsed this fast - but that it was entirely known it would fall. Biden will end up regretting the Saigon rooftop comment, but I imagine they anticipated a few months of time left to get everyone out.

See that's exactly what I'm saying though.... if no one saw this coming at all, it's totally unfathomable and then it happens....that's a huge failure. That's like "bin laden determined to strike US" intel report a few months before 9/11 big time failure, which sadly tells me on top of accomplishing nothing, we've also learned nothing.

 

[TRUMPWONBIDENLOST]

Afghanistan was always destined to be a shit hole anyways. If 20 years and trillions of dollars ain’t gonna fix it, nothing will.

Careful.......it almost sounds like you are calling Afghanistan a "Shithole" country. The Libtards don't like to hear the truth so they will likely try and cancel you.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

It's almost like media and the MIC expected Trump/Biden to eventually blink...

Oh, look, the war's on.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Careful.......it almost sounds like you are calling Afghanistan a "Shithole" country. The Libtards don't like to hear the truth so they will likely try and cancel you.

I mean they've banned the corona vaxx, it's run by a bunch of ultraconservative woman hating theocrats, everyone gets cheap and easy access to full auto weaponry, but not education or Healthcare......

Sounds like a goddamn republican wet dream.

 

[32andBelow]

I mean they've banned the corona vaxx, it's run by a bunch of ultraconservative woman hating theocrats, everyone gets cheap and easy access to full auto weaponry, but not education or Healthcare......

Sounds like a goddamn republican wet dream.

Mandatory religion. No abortions. No vaccines. Is it Alabama or Afghanistan?!

 

[TRUMPWONBIDENLOST]

I mean they've banned the corona vaxx, it's run by a bunch of ultraconservative woman hating theocrats, everyone gets cheap and easy access to full auto weaponry, but not education or Healthcare......

Sounds like a goddamn republican wet dream.

I know right! Biden is really bringing the country together. He has been incredible for our country over the first 7 months.

 

[kombucha23]

Afghanibama? Alabamistan? Alabamistan.

 

[32andBelow]

I know right! Biden is really bringing the country together. He has been incredible for our country over the first 7 months.

User Clip: TrumpAfghanistan

TrumpAfghanistan

www.c-span.org

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Afghanibama? Alabamistan? Alabamistan.

Capitol? Mobul.

 

[TRUMPWONBIDENLOST]

Capitol? Mobul.

You poor guy. You have so little that you need to hold on to your hate of Trump to explain the failures of Biden. Like Biden gives two shits any deal that Trump made. Trump made the deal for the Keystone Pipeline yet Biden Scrapped that. Trump got us out of the Paris accord, Biden jumped right back into it. Trump implimented and Tried like hell to secure our border, Biden does everything he can to open it up unchecked. There is no defending this administration. They are a bunch of idiots with Ragedy Anne as their spokesperson.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I know right! Biden is really bringing the country together. He has been incredible for our country over the first 7 months.

You poor guy. You have so little that you need to hold on to your hate of Trump to explain the failures of Biden. Like Biden gives two shits any deal that Trump made. Trump made the deal for the Keystone Pipeline yet Biden Scrapped that. Trump got us out of the Paris accord, Biden jumped right back into it. Trump implimented and Tried like hell to secure our border, Biden does everything he can to open it up unchecked. There is no defending this administration. They are a bunch of idiots with Ragedy Anne as their spokesperson.

Nah screw that guy and the nonbinary horse he rode in on. Woke neoliberalism is nearly as bad as and just as harmful. I don't like any of them.

I think it's HILARIOUS what both sides choose to ignore when it's thier guy, and anyone who buys completely into a political dogma one way or the other without applying independent thought is a sucker and deserves all the self harm they do themselves by propping up and voting for anyone proud to attach themselves to either party.

 

[TRUMPWONBIDENLOST]

Nah screw that guy and the nonbinary horse he rode in on. Woke neoliberalism is nearly as bad as and just as harmful. I don't like any of them.

I think it's HILARIOUS what both sides choose to ignore when it's thier guy, and anyone who buys completely into a political dogma one way or the other without applying independent thought is a sucker and deserves all the self harm they do themselves by propping up and voting for anyone proud to attach themselves to either party.

Alright, you get a pass.