Hiring Bid Experienced bid: FAA-ATO-16-ATC-EXP-49432

[MikeDelta]

They're up and running, on generator power. Controllers are basically living at the airport. They're trying to evacuate their families to the US. As you can imagine, with no power on the island for an estimated 4-6 months, it's a borderline warzone at night. I'm shocked they put it on anyone's list. I'm curious if they will allow the two people at the academy who are slated to go their the ability to change their selection.

So what you're saying is that this is most likely the place we'll be going no matter where we put it in our list.

 

[MJ]

Here's the most recent list for prior experience guys.

CRP - 9 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
M03 - 9 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
RDU - 9 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
T75 - 9 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
A11 - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
CHS - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
CLE - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
ICT - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
OKC - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
ORF - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
TUL - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017

Yes... yes... fill those slots.

 

[ajmezz]

So what you're saying is that this is most likely the place we'll be going no matter where we put it in our list.

How did you gather that from what he said?

 

[MikeDelta]

Sarcasm

 

[ZuluSierra]

I would take SJU if it were offered to me. Even though it's going to be fucked up for a while, home prices will be rock-bottom. Puerto Rico is already super-low COL and you don't pay nearly as much in taxes. They'll bounce back from the hurricane eventually.

What I don't know is how often hurricanes have devastated PR in the past.

 

[breakaway2000]

I would take SJU if it were offered to me. Even though it's going to be fucked up for a while, home prices will be rock-bottom. Puerto Rico is already super-low COL and you don't pay nearly as much in taxes. They'll bounce back from the hurricane eventually.

What I don't know is how often hurricanes have devastated PR in the past.

If you were faced with that situation, I'd encourage you to do thorough research on it before making that decision. I have a number of people I can get you in contact with who could give you a realistic view of what the island will cost (ex PR controllers who returned stateside after realizing the true cost of living in PR). For instance, you'll pay far more in taxes in PR then the vast majority of the US. A 33% tax bracket starts once you hit 61k for PR income tax. On top of that, their 11.5% sales tax ranks #1 when compared to the rest of the US (there's talk of raising it to 16%). Given that it's a US Commonwealth, most non-food/medicine items are also subject to an 11.5% import tax.

I'd encourage anyone to do the same in terms of getting in contact with current/former controllers whether it be, Puerto Rico, California, New York, Alaska, Hawaii, etc to get a complete picture of taxes, cost of living, etc.

 

[ZuluSierra]

If you were faced with that situation, I'd encourage you to do thorough research on it before making that decision. I have a number of people I can get you in contact with who could give you a realistic view of what the island will cost (ex PR controllers who returned stateside after realizing the true cost of living in PR). For instance, you'll pay far more in taxes in PR then the vast majority of the US. A 33% tax bracket starts once you hit 61k for PR income tax. On top of that, their 11.5% sales tax ranks #1 when compared to the rest of the US (there's talk of raising it to 16%). Given that it's a US Commonwealth, most non-food/medicine items are also subject to an 11.5% import tax.

I'd encourage anyone to do the same in terms of getting in contact with current/former controllers whether it be, Puerto Rico, California, New York, Alaska, Hawaii, etc to get a complete picture of taxes, cost of living, etc.

You know, I heard that the taxes were super-low from a businssman on Joe Rogan's podcast recently. I hadn't done my own research.

But you're right. He didn't specify that the 4% tax rate is for corporations. If you own a business, then basing it out of Puerto Rico has a ton of incentives. But to actually live/work there as an individual, not so much. As I've just learned from you and some quick researching. I stand corrected.

 

[breakaway2000]

You know, I heard that the taxes were super-low from a businssman on Joe Rogan's podcast recently. I hadn't done my own research.

But you're right. He didn't specify that the 4% tax rate is for corporations. If you own a business, then basing it out of Puerto Rico has a ton of incentives. But to actually live/work there as an individual, not so much. As I've just learned from you and some quick researching. I stand corrected.

I really wish we could have a controller breakdown of cost of living, taxes, misc. expenses, etc. for each location. It always amazes me the differences not just in oconus locations, but state to state. Heck, I had no idea about GA's vehicle tax for new residents (6.5% based on the value of each of your vehicles). I feel like there's all kinds of random things like this across the country.

 

[Stinger]

I really wish we could have a controller breakdown of cost of living, taxes, misc. expenses, etc. for each location. It always amazes me the differences not just in oconus locations, but state to state. Heck, I had no idea about GA's vehicle tax for new residents (6.5% based on the value of each of your vehicles). I feel like there's all kinds of random things like this across the country.

Texas wanted to charge me sales tax on a vehicle that I had bought 4 years previously in a different state that doesn't have sales tax. Ended up not even registering it in Texas, just kept it registered in the previous state.

 

[MJ]

I really wish we could have a controller breakdown of cost of living, taxes, misc. expenses, etc. for each location. It always amazes me the differences not just in oconus locations, but state to state. Heck, I had no idea about GA's vehicle tax for new residents (6.5% based on the value of each of your vehicles). I feel like there's all kinds of random things like this across the country.

If only there were something like wikipedia, but for atc...

 

[breakaway2000]

Here's where the most recent list of prior experience new hires are headed...

RDU - 9 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
Y90 - 8 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
CAK - 7 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
ISP - 6 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
VGT - 6 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
OMA - 6 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
SHV - 6 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
OMA - 6 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
SMO - 5 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017
CSG - 4 - Reserved for Previous Experience New Hire - 10/3/2017

 

[MikeDelta]

So I got my tentative offer letter for ISP yesterday and asked for a November 12 start date.

 

[Zachary Greenwood]

What does is the starting pay for the Previous Experience New Hire? Does it depend on the facility?

 

[MikeDelta]

As long as you can prove your military you will start at the lowest Developmental pay. Otherwise it's academy graduate pay. I went through this yesterday with HR trying to track down a copy of my NAS New Orleans CTO from 2004. Thankfully I was able to find one since its a difference of almost 20k a year at ISP.

 

[ajmezz]

Yeah, with no military background, you start at AG and it's rough with the lists that are being offered.

 

[MikeDelta]

Yeah, with no military background, you start at AG and it's rough with the lists that are being offered.

No kidding, I wasn't sure how I was going to afford two households living on Long Island on AG pay.

 

[mdym]

How long is the wait for everyone? I received my TOL in April this year, CIL in May, and completed all the items mid July. Still waiting on a facility list. Now I'm hearing that people off the more recent prior experience new hire bid are getting not just TOL's, but CIL's this week. I did email the HR POC and yes, I'm still waiting for a response to that too.

 

[MikeDelta]

I got my TOL in April, my CIL towards the end of August, then the medical, mmpi, etc finished in early September. Got my list in early October, my FOL for ISP two weeks ago for a November 27 start date.

 

[WW1980]

Got to my new facility and they’re telling me I have to go to the Radar training class in OK because I don’t have an FAA Radar certification. Then what was the point of the experience bid? My friends that went to other locations aren’t going. Does anyone know where I can find information on this?

 

[breakaway2000]

The 3120.4 contradicts itself and this relates to @OscarGolf as well.

Per the 3120.4 via page 4-1
All Sources - Experience • Enter appropriate stage of field training at the facility based on experience.

To me, this means if you're going to a TRACON only facility, you do not go to RTF.

The 3120.4 then contradicts itself as it doesn't differentiate if the developmental came from an "All-Source bid vs Experience bid".

3. Enrollment in Terminal Basic Radar Training (Course 50034 or current course). Enrollment is limited to developmentals/CPC-ITs assigned to, or selected for, TRACON facilities, who have not been radar-certified at the CPC level at an FAA facility. Developmentals/CPC-ITs at visual flight rules (VFR) towers are not eligible to attend Course 50034. Developmentals/CPC-ITs at towers that meet the criteria to provide radar services must complete the Terminal Radar Qualification examination and the appropriate portions of Stage 7, Radar Control Training (see appendix F, Terminal Instructional Program Guide) as part of local control certification.

If I'm a betting man, I'd bet that the first section on page 4-1 was updated when the hiring process changed to All Source bid vs Experienced bid. The following sections were left unchanged. You can get with your RVP who will get with a national training rep to give you a verdict. I believe the first section will trump the latter.

3120.4 can be found here
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/JO_3120.4P.pdf