Shoot The Breeze 3.0

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Pilots union-https://www.zerohedge.com/political/southwest-pilots-union-sues-block-airlines-vaccination-mandate

Postal union-https://apwu.org/news/vaccination-mandates-president-biden

I sure hope we can change airmen by the end of this fiscal year

Can you please show me the 10 year safety and efficacy of RNA or DNA therapy

The vaccine was authorized under the emergency use because the risks of the virus outweighed the unknowns of the vaccine.

If someone offers to take care of people's medical bills and my kids and make someone liable for a now approved product many would go get it tomorrow.

This is the first widely distributed product of this type, vaccine or gene therapy.
This is the first product to hold both an eua and approval at same time. Allowing mandates and liability.

Onto the proof-the sheer numbers of VAERS reports have gone up a huge amount-which warrants an investigation, we simply haven't had enough time to run the analysis of causation vs correlation.

I chose to get vaccinated, it should not be mandated
Wow you really rolled out EUA even though it’s fully approved? The vaccine isn’t even in your body after a copy weeks so wtf is gonna happen in 10 years. We now have to test everything for 10 years before it can be released? Why not 25? Or 100?
 
Just wondering how many are considering leaving the union because the union failed at a minimum to release a public statement against the mandate and at best urge members not to attest regardless of their position on vaccination/status? I know the union is arguing that there isn’t anything they can do but I say B.S.; a public statement and or membership email condemning the mandate is a start. They have done this before for other EOs (denounce the order) so why not for this one? I suspect it’s because there are enough members who are either for the mandate or are too indifferent to challenge it hence NATCA leadership feels that it’s best to simply go along with the EO. To be clear, I am not against the vaccine, I am against the mandate and believe that the administration is operating outside of its authority/powers. I also believe this sets a precedent for future changes in working conditions without any union negotiation, thereby undermining future negotiations. If the administration can get away with this without negotiating with unions, who is to say that they can’t get away with other changes in working conditions or terms of employment under the guise of protecting us during an emergency? What happens if they mandate boosters every year or if another variant requires a new vaccine that is risky (loss of a medical) to certain demographic groups? What are the limits of such unilateral action, if any exist? It seams to me that NATCA leadership is only willing to act on issues that they know the FAA or administration is going to collaborate on (and they can take credit for), but when the going gets tough and actual workers’ right to work or working conditions are at stake, they immediately give in and try to downplay any negative effects stemming from the action of the agency or administration. The reality is this: employees are being coerced or forced to vaccinate regardless of their levels of natural antibodies/immunity or risk termination.
This is unethical and wrong. Seams to me that the only way to change the mind of our leadership is to leave the union, which is unfortunate. I wrote a letter to NATCA leadership and their response was basically that the mandate is there to protect us and the NAS. Based on what I have learned about this virus and the available vaccines, I don’t believe a mandate is warranted unless of course you believe individuals are too stupid to make their own health decisions. Anyway, I am just curious if anyone has actually left or is planning to leave the union over this.
 

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Just wondering how many are considering leaving the union because the union failed at a minimum to release a public statement against the mandate and at best urge members not to attest regardless of their position on vaccination/status? I know the union is arguing that there isn’t anything they can do but I say B.S.; a public statement and or membership email condemning the mandate is a start. They have done this before for other EOs (denounce the order) so why not for this one? I suspect it’s because there are enough members who are either for the mandate or are too indifferent to challenge it hence NATCA leadership feels that it’s best to simply go along with the EO. To be clear, I am not against the vaccine, I am against the mandate and believe that the administration is operating outside of its authority/powers. I also believe this sets a precedent for future changes in working conditions without any union negotiation, thereby undermining future negotiations. If the administration can get away with this without negotiating with unions, who is to say that they can’t get away with other changes in working conditions or terms of employment under the guise of protecting us during an emergency? What happens if they mandate boosters every year or if another variant requires a new vaccine that is risky (loss of a medical) to certain demographic groups? What are the limits of such unilateral action, if any exist? It seams to me that NATCA leadership is only willing to act on issues that they know the FAA or administration is going to collaborate on (and they can take credit for), but when the going gets tough and actual workers’ right to work or working conditions are at stake, they immediately give in and try to downplay any negative effects stemming from the action of the agency or administration. The reality is this: employees are being coerced or forced to vaccinate regardless of their levels of natural antibodies/immunity or risk termination.
This is unethical and wrong. Seams to me that the only way to change the mind of our leadership is to leave the union, which is unfortunate. I wrote a letter to NATCA leadership and their response was basically that the mandate is there to protect us and the NAS. Based on what I have learned about this virus and the available vaccines, I don’t believe a mandate is warranted unless of course you believe individuals are too stupid to make their own health decisions. Anyway, I am just curious if anyone has actually left or is planning to leave the union over this.
What makes you think the majority of the Union wants them to condemn the mandate? 715,000 Americans have died from Covid. It’s not like this is just an out of the blue measure
 
I don’t. I simply believe there are quite a few against the mandate and a lot who are simply indifferent.
So coming out against it when half or more are for it doesn’t make much sense either. So they probably just decided not to say much. But I do think quite a few will quit the Union over it. It gives cover to lots of people who were prolly already thinking of it
 
So coming out against it when half or more are for it doesn’t make much sense either. So they probably just decided not to say much. But I do think quite a few will quit the Union over it. It gives cover to lots of people who were prolly already thinking of it
I didn’t seriously consider it until about the last couple of weeks based on the response (or lack there of) of NATCA leadership.
 
I don’t. I simply believe there are quite a few against the mandate and a lot who are simply indifferent.
I dont think there is much grey area here. Seems like folks are against it or for the mandate. I was waiting for natca to send out a statement as well. But they knew most of the controllers were for the mandate. Natca has been so quiet on this it's almost like they have been holding back info?

And seriously, if Trump was in office...how would natca approach this "mandate"?
 
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Just wondering how many are considering leaving the union because the union failed at a minimum to release a public statement against the mandate and at best urge members not to attest regardless of their position on vaccination/status? I know the union is arguing that there isn’t anything they can do but I say B.S.; a public statement and or membership email condemning the mandate is a start. They have done this before for other EOs (denounce the order) so why not for this one? I suspect it’s because there are enough members who are either for the mandate or are too indifferent to challenge it hence NATCA leadership feels that it’s best to simply go along with the EO. To be clear, I am not against the vaccine, I am against the mandate and believe that the administration is operating outside of its authority/powers. I also believe this sets a precedent for future changes in working conditions without any union negotiation, thereby undermining future negotiations. If the administration can get away with this without negotiating with unions, who is to say that they can’t get away with other changes in working conditions or terms of employment under the guise of protecting us during an emergency? What happens if they mandate boosters every year or if another variant requires a new vaccine that is risky (loss of a medical) to certain demographic groups? What are the limits of such unilateral action, if any exist? It seams to me that NATCA leadership is only willing to act on issues that they know the FAA or administration is going to collaborate on (and they can take credit for), but when the going gets tough and actual workers’ right to work or working conditions are at stake, they immediately give in and try to downplay any negative effects stemming from the action of the agency or administration. The reality is this: employees are being coerced or forced to vaccinate regardless of their levels of natural antibodies/immunity or risk termination.
This is unethical and wrong. Seams to me that the only way to change the mind of our leadership is to leave the union, which is unfortunate. I wrote a letter to NATCA leadership and their response was basically that the mandate is there to protect us and the NAS. Based on what I have learned about this virus and the available vaccines, I don’t believe a mandate is warranted unless of course you believe individuals are too stupid to make their own health decisions. Anyway, I am just curious if anyone has actually left or is planning to leave the union over this.

I do believe individuals are too stupid to make their own health decisions, have you talked to any of these people? They're animals
 
Just wondering how many are considering leaving the union because the union failed at a minimum to release a public statement against the mandate and at best urge members not to attest regardless of their position on vaccination/status? I know the union is arguing that there isn’t anything they can do but I say B.S.; a public statement and or membership email condemning the mandate is a start. They have done this before for other EOs (denounce the order) so why not for this one? I suspect it’s because there are enough members who are either for the mandate or are too indifferent to challenge it hence NATCA leadership feels that it’s best to simply go along with the EO. To be clear, I am not against the vaccine, I am against the mandate and believe that the administration is operating outside of its authority/powers. I also believe this sets a precedent for future changes in working conditions without any union negotiation, thereby undermining future negotiations. If the administration can get away with this without negotiating with unions, who is to say that they can’t get away with other changes in working conditions or terms of employment under the guise of protecting us during an emergency? What happens if they mandate boosters every year or if another variant requires a new vaccine that is risky (loss of a medical) to certain demographic groups? What are the limits of such unilateral action, if any exist? It seams to me that NATCA leadership is only willing to act on issues that they know the FAA or administration is going to collaborate on (and they can take credit for), but when the going gets tough and actual workers’ right to work or working conditions are at stake, they immediately give in and try to downplay any negative effects stemming from the action of the agency or administration. The reality is this: employees are being coerced or forced to vaccinate regardless of their levels of natural antibodies/immunity or risk termination.
This is unethical and wrong. Seams to me that the only way to change the mind of our leadership is to leave the union, which is unfortunate. I wrote a letter to NATCA leadership and their response was basically that the mandate is there to protect us and the NAS. Based on what I have learned about this virus and the available vaccines, I don’t believe a mandate is warranted unless of course you believe individuals are too stupid to make their own health decisions. Anyway, I am just curious if anyone has actually left or is planning to leave the union over this.
Not that NATCA gives a shit, not that what I have to say nor any of my counterparts’ opinions matter, (and I say this as a FACREP).. but I’d say 95% of FACREPs I’ve talked to in the contract world have stated they will be reducing to one active NATCA member to milk our annual pay raise (which doesn’t even match inflation), but we’ve all lost complete faith in leadership. It’s not anti-vax yada yada conspiracy bullshit. It’s an overstep in authority to suddenly bring on a new condition of employment when my vaccination status was never brought into question when being hired in the first place. You want numbers? Statistics? How about the fact that I have a 99.94% chance of not dying from Covid. Is that enough science for you? Myself and two others at my facility are ready and willing to face the music when it inevitably comes to it. That might sound like a drop in the bucket by some comparison but it’s 75% of my facility as it sits. (For those who need the math spelled out, we have 4 controllers, 3 are willing to go, that leaves one controller to run the facility) I genuinely feel for those who are tied down by circumstances and don’t have the ability to speak up for and defend their, perceived at least, inalienable rights.

If you give an inch, they’ll take a mile.
 
Not that NATCA gives a shit, not that what I have to say nor any of my counterparts’ opinions matter, (and I say this as a FACREP).. but I’d say 95% of FACREPs I’ve talked to in the contract world have stated they will be reducing to one active NATCA member to milk our annual pay raise (which doesn’t even match inflation), but we’ve all lost complete faith in leadership. It’s not anti-vax yada yada conspiracy bullshit. It’s an overstep in authority to suddenly bring on a new condition of employment when my vaccination status was never brought into question when being hired in the first place. You want numbers? Statistics? How about the fact that I have a 99.94% chance of not dying from Covid. Is that enough science for you? Myself and two others at my facility are ready and willing to face the music when it inevitably comes to it. That might sound like a drop in the bucket by some comparison but it’s 75% of my facility as it sits. (For those who need the math spelled out, we have 4 controllers, 3 are willing to go, that leaves one controller to run the facility) I genuinely feel for those who are tied down by circumstances and don’t have the ability to speak up for and defend their, perceived at least, inalienable rights.

If you give an inch, they’ll take a mile.
Cool they’ll just hire someone else in your place or reduce hours
 
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