Serious Abolishment of Section 804 through N90->EWR

[GulfCharlie]

This is a long thread so grab some popcorn, credit for this does not go to me but the anonymous members of N90.

In March 2023, a teleconference led by Rich Santa addressed the purpose of the lawsuit, aiming to obtain documents showcasing non-compliance with aviation legislation. The affidavit received on March 15th, 2023, provided grounds to request a preliminary injunction to halt FAA transfer facilitation until compliance was ensured. Prior to legal action, administrative remedies, including filing a grievance, were required to give NATCA and the FAA a chance to address the issue. A grievance was filed on January 30, 2023, for an EWR controller undergoing involuntary reassignment to PHL, with Rich acknowledging and expressing intent to consult with the legal department.

Before taking legal action, it was necessary to exhaust all administrative remedies, including filing a grievance, to give NATCA and the FAA a chance to address the issue. Accordingly, a grievance was prepared for one of the EWR controllers being involuntarily reassigned to PHL and submitted on January 30, 2023. Rich was briefed on the grievance, acknowledged the argument, and expressed intent to consult with the legal department.

In May 2023, the transfer letters were retracted. Rich announced at N90 that the transfer was suspended, pending further improvement in staffing levels, suggesting an end to the EWR—PHL transfer.

Then in July 2023, NATCA endorsed the House version of the 2023 FAA Reauthorization Act, which abolishes Section 804 and includes Section 744, titled "Airspace Transition Completion," mandating the transfer of responsibility for the Newark, New Jersey radar sector to the Philadelphia terminal radar approach control facility within 180 days of the enactment of the Act.



Rich's remarks during a House of Representatives Aviation Subcommittee hearing on November 30th, 2023, shed light on his stance. The discussion revolved around the significance of enacting a comprehensive long-term FAA reauthorization bill. Rich explicitly voiced his support for the measures delineated in the House Bill, as documented in a press release by Justin Hacerlode.

(1 hour 30 minute mark)

Analyzing Rich’s statements (at face value), it becomes evident that he supports the relocation of EWR to PHL and the removal of Section 804. It is widely believed that Section 804 plays a vital role as a legislative safeguard, ensuring the preservation of the working conditions of all members. Rich's backing of legislation aiming to eradicate Section 804 and NATCA's stance on Realignments could potentially have significant consequences.

If Rich had the goal to eliminate Section 804 and alter NATCA's position on Realignments, it is logical that he should have proposed a Constitutional amendment during the 19th Biennial Convention in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, in June 2023. Interestingly, when questioned about Section 804 in June 2022, Rich claimed that the FAA could secure a waiver and proceed with the EWR to PHL realignment without it. However, upon conducting a FOIA request (referenced below), it was revealed that this assertion was incorrect.

This has exceptionally long term consequences for all facilities due to the removal of the 804 process, one might find it hard to believe that an individual running for NATCA President would support future consolidations at the whim of the FAA while giving up bargaining power on something that should involve the Union.

 

[KP-ATC]

Wait - are you saying that 804 consolidations or realignment are no longer a thing?

 

[32andBelow]

Wait - are you saying that 804 consolidations or realignment are no longer a thing?

I think he’s saying they can just do it if they want without it

 

[GulfCharlie]

I think he’s saying they can just do it if they want without it

Essentially, another important part of the contract chipped away at.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Anyone know how short they were on volunteers?

 

[32andBelow]

Anyone know how short they were on volunteers?

If the original volunteers don’t get price match that’s gonna be awkward

 

[Termine]

Essentially, another important part of the contract chipped away at.

804s were always a thing the agency could do if they wanted to, how is this any different? Sec 804 in fact directed the FAA to pursue consolidation, if it got removed that's great. Sorry for the N90-EWR guys but good for every other BUE who doesn't want their facility to be split apart.

Also kind of funny that Sec 744 says the Administrator has to move responsibility for Newark down to PHL, but can't reduce N90's target staffing as a result. Laughable. With 804 at least the target staffing numbers were adjusted.

 

[Deuce]

Anyone know how short they were on volunteers?

They got 5

804s were always a thing the agency could do if they wanted to, how is this any different? Sec 804 in fact directed the FAA to pursue consolidation, if it got removed that's great. Sorry for the N90-EWR guys but good for every other BUE who doesn't want their facility to be split apart.

Also kind of funny that Sec 744 says the Administrator has to move responsibility for Newark down to PHL, but can't reduce N90's target staffing as a result. Laughable. With 804 at least the target staffing numbers were adjusted.

Yeah but they had to follow the 804 process, this has 0 process just they wanna do it

They obviously just said the staffing number wouldn't change to convince the local congressmen to agree, they'll change it in a few years I'm sure

 

[SANTAISABICH]

804s were always a thing the agency could do if they wanted to, how is this any different? Sec 804 in fact directed the FAA to pursue consolidation, if it got removed that's great. Sorry for the N90-EWR guys but good for every other BUE who doesn't want their facility to be split apart.

Also kind of funny that Sec 744 says the Administrator has to move responsibility for Newark down to PHL, but can't reduce N90's target staffing as a result. Laughable. With 804 at least the target staffing numbers were adjusted.

So, if I understand correctly, our union, NATCA, has a policy regarding realignments in our Constitution that makes it easier for the FAA to realign our facilities? Furthermore, the FAA has been trying to move EWR to PHL for the last 4 years, but according to you, had they just followed Section 804, it would have been easier for the FAA to accomplish that? From our Constitution:

NATCA CONSTITUTION:

PSC-1 Facility Consolidations (1/00, 9/10, 9/16)
Protecting and ensuring the overall safety and efficiency of the National Airspace System should be in the forefront of any realignment of air traffic control facilities or services (including regional offices). The terms “realignment” and “consolidation” include any action that relocates functions, services, or personnel positions; discontinues or severs existing facility functions or services; or combines them.
Each facility, sectored airspace and regional office is unique. Therefore, the only way to determine if the realignment of an air traffic control facility or services is necessary and appropriate is through the development of a comprehensive process with clearly outlined criteria and participants. That process was created through collaboration under Public Law 112-95 Section 804, now known as “Section 804.” NATCA will be involved in the development of all criteria, discussions, decisions, and briefings to Congress whereby we must assist the Agency to:
a. Support the transition to the Next Generation Air Transportation System.
b. Reduce capital, operating, maintenance, and administrative costs of the FAA where such cost reductions can be implemented without adversely affecting safety.
That process must include or provide for:
a. Controllers, representatives of labor organizations representing operations and maintenance employees of the air traffic control system, as well as industry stakeholders, from inception to implementation.
b. The process must be clearly explained to all parties and members of each facility shall have a right to inform the process during all phases.
c. Sustaining the overall efficiencies of the NAS shall be at the forefront of the process with every effort made toward helping to reduce capital, operating, maintenance and administrative costs of the FAA where such cost reductions can be implemented without adversely affecting safety.
d. Cost never trumps safety and efficiency or the quality and level of services provided to users.
e. The lives of employees and their families are a major consideration throughout the process.
f. A collaboratively agreed upon process for existing and future facilities will be agreed upon Nationally.
NATCA supports realignments and advances to the National Airspace System only where the above criteria are met and if it can be done without compromising safety.

 

[Termine]

I'm saying that the FAA has realigned facilities before Section 804 existed, and the FAA has realigned facilities while Section 804 existed, and now that Section 804 no longer exists (apparently) they will continue to realign facilities. I'm not sure what the huge deal is, except that if the law is no longer specifically directing the FAA to actively pursue consolidation then that's great.

 

[Phillyman2633]

804s were always a thing the agency could do if they wanted to, how is this any different? Sec 804 in fact directed the FAA to pursue consolidation, if it got removed that's great. Sorry for the N90-EWR guys but good for every other BUE who doesn't want their facility to be split apart.

Also kind of funny that Sec 744 says the Administrator has to move responsibility for Newark down to PHL, but can't reduce N90's target staffing as a result. Laughable. With 804 at least the target staffing numbers were adjusted.

Heads up for the mentally challenged take from the guy who didn't read any portion of Section 804 before dropping this dumbass post

For all you non-mentally-challenged inquiring minds out there, Section 804 required the FAA Administrator to submit a report to Congress before beginning any consolidation efforts. The report had to be developed in collaboration with NATCA, PASS, industry stakeholders, and others and had to include substantiated evidence and reasoning for the consolidation efforts. It required a 45 day period for public commentary. Section 804 gave Congress the authority to override the FAA on any consolidation efforts they disagreed with.

With the sunsetting of Section 804 per Rich Santa's clearly communicated desires, the FAA now retains sole authority to consolidate facilities as they deem fit.

 

[inthrewtheoutdor]

Hearing if the forced move happens, the FAA will drop the Arrival Rate from around 60 an hour as it is now, to under 20 as to make the certifications extremely easy.

Not sure United understands how much money in delays this will cost....

Everyone talking about safety, certify 40 people in a year at 1/3 the capacity and then letting it rip full capacity seems really safe

 

[GulfCharlie]

Heads up for the mentally challenged take from the guy who didn't read any portion of Section 804 before dropping this dumbass post

For all you non-mentally-challenged inquiring minds out there, Section 804 required the FAA Administrator to submit a report to Congress before beginning any consolidation efforts. The report had to be developed in collaboration with NATCA, PASS, industry stakeholders, and others and had to include substantiated evidence and reasoning for the consolidation efforts. It required a 45 day period for public commentary. Section 804 gave Congress the authority to override the FAA on any consolidation efforts they disagreed with.

With the sunsetting of Section 804 per Rich Santa's clearly communicated desires, the FAA now retains sole authority to consolidate facilities as they deem fit.

Time to revive that Super TRACON plan from the 90's! On a more serious note, what Philly said. I (and a few others) have beaten this topic into the ground and having to break it down. Perhaps I could have done a better job rewording things to be more succinct, but it is important people grasp the full and unintended consequences of this.

 

[DankVectorz]

Not sure United understands how much money in delays this will cost....

Per the FAA briefings to us, UAL is willing to take the hit this year if it means better staffing and less delays later. But they’re basing that on bullshit numbers being fed to them by the FAA. Also next year one of the runways at EWR is scheduled for repaving so there was already going to be a lower rate all summer 2025

 

[inthrewtheoutdor]

2nd round of forced move letters by friday is current rumor.
Union needs to respond strong. FAA doing whatever they want without any input from us in multiple areas of the NAS that will absolutely add more risk into the system.

 

[GulfCharlie]

2nd round of forced move letters by friday is current rumor.
Union needs to respond strong. FAA doing whatever they want without any input from us in multiple areas of the NAS that will absolutely add more risk into the system.

It seems this was the goal all along and will be for future facilities.

 

[Mayhem1369]

💯 getting forced TDY letters tomorrow. There is no other move. This entire debacle is a shit show of epic proportions. Sure. Let’s certify guys on a 20 rate, then see if they can work a 54 rate later. No way in hell. Grab your popcorn and sit back. Cause if they succeed in this move, you can watch the highlights on Air Disasters.

 

[Bandit117]

Per the FAA briefings to us, UAL is willing to take the hit this year if it means better staffing and less delays later. But they’re basing that on bullshit numbers being fed to them by the FAA. Also next year one of the runways at EWR is scheduled for repaving so there was already going to be a lower rate all summer 2025

Any chance you have a copy of the briefing?

 

[GulfCharlie]

Any chance you have a copy of the briefing?

I'd like to see it as well if able.

 

[rhombus]

Per the FAA briefings to us, UAL is willing to take the hit this year if it means better staffing and less delays later. But they’re basing that on bullshit numbers being fed to them by the FAA. Also next year one of the runways at EWR is scheduled for repaving so there was already going to be a lower rate all summer 2025

Maybe one day they’ll listen