November (Q1) 2021

julietoscar said:
Honestly, local bids and they should do away with the academy altogether. You can apply to any facility you want, do the 5 weeks basics via zoom and then start right at the facility for local training.
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Absolutely not. If you're advocating for this, you've never trained a "prior experience hire" who never actually talked to a plane in their time in the service. Let me tell you, it ain't fun and it ain't easy. I don't get paid enough as an OJTI when you come in and have a basic understanding of the rules and phraseology, let alone if you come in knowing absolutely nothing. Especially at a slow place where the trainee only gets to talk to like 10 planes a day, progression is very very slow. They need that repetition. It's not my job to whisper everything in your ear so you can parrot me and to teach you every single rule and concept, all your separation requirements, all your a/c performance/characteristics, etc... I'm there to teach you how to apply the rules and things you already know to this airport.

The academy is very good at laying a groundwork foundation of basic air traffic skills. It also helps determine if a new hire is teachable. In the long run, it definitely speeds up the certification process and saves money as opposed to just learning everything at the facility. One new thing they are doing is sending prior experience new hires to the academy now for classes to my understanding. Like we're getting a new hire here with radar experience who will have to go to tower class. That's probably dumb and a waste of time though. It should be a case by case basis imo when it comes to prior experience. But either way, the faa definitely needs to do a better job at vetting their experience so I'm not teaching people from the ground up.
 
Acquired Taste said:
Absolutely not. If you're advocating for this, you've never trained a "prior experience hire" who never actually talked to a plane in their time in the service. Let me tell you, it ain't fun and it ain't easy. I don't get paid enough as an OJTI when you come in and have a basic understanding of the rules and phraseology, let alone if you come in knowing absolutely nothing. Especially at a slow place where the trainee only gets to talk to like 10 planes a day, progression is very very slow. They need that repetition. It's not my job to whisper everything in your ear so you can parrot me and to teach you every single rule and concept, all your separation requirements, all your a/c performance/characteristics, etc... I'm there to teach you how to apply the rules and things you already know to this airport.

The academy is very good at laying a groundwork foundation of basic air traffic skills. It also helps determine if a new hire is teachable. In the long run, it definitely speeds up the certification process and saves money as opposed to just learning everything at the facility. One new thing they are doing is sending prior experience new hires to the academy now for classes to my understanding. Like we're getting a new hire here with radar experience who will have to go to tower class. That's probably dumb and a waste of time though. It should be a case by case basis imo when it comes to prior experience. But either way, the faa definitely needs to do a better job at vetting their experience so I'm not teaching people from the ground up.
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D6912DB0-7600-4132-B587-AADEF000539B.jpeg
 
Acquired Taste said:
Absolutely not. If you're advocating for this, you've never trained a "prior experience hire" who never actually talked to a plane in their time in the service. Let me tell you, it ain't fun and it ain't easy. I don't get paid enough as an OJTI when you come in and have a basic understanding of the rules and phraseology, let alone if you come in knowing absolutely nothing. Especially at a slow place where the trainee only gets to talk to like 10 planes a day, progression is very very slow. They need that repetition. It's not my job to whisper everything in your ear so you can parrot me and to teach you every single rule and concept, all your separation requirements, all your a/c performance/characteristics, etc... I'm there to teach you how to apply the rules and things you already know to this airport.

The academy is very good at laying a groundwork foundation of basic air traffic skills. It also helps determine if a new hire is teachable. In the long run, it definitely speeds up the certification process and saves money as opposed to just learning everything at the facility. One new thing they are doing is sending prior experience new hires to the academy now for classes to my understanding. Like we're getting a new hire here with radar experience who will have to go to tower class. That's probably dumb and a waste of time though. It should be a case by case basis imo when it comes to prior experience. But either way, the faa definitely needs to do a better job at vetting their experience so I'm not teaching people from the ground up.
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I could see it being useful for terminal, but in my opinion the en route option spends way too much time on nonradar and not enough on the part that actually matters. They cram so much information into the last few weeks and expect you to absorb enough to pass.

I feel like they could expand basics to teach you more about phraseology and procedures. I also believe the 3 months or so you spend on nonradar/radar would be better served at the actual facility learning local procedures rather than generic information you may or may not ever use.
 
julietoscar said:
I could see it being useful for terminal, but in my opinion the en route option spends way too much time on nonradar and not enough on the part that actually matters. They cram so much information into the last few weeks and expect you to absorb enough to pass.

I feel like they could expand basics to teach you more about phraseology and procedures. I also believe the 3 months or so you spend on nonradar/radar would be better served at the actual facility learning local procedures rather than generic information you may or may not ever use.
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You don't think learning how to issue non radar instructions to Contact Jackson Approach 17 Miles NW of the Jackson VORTAC is laying a great foundation to then have someone walk into ZMA or ZJX and learn how to be a D side during weather Deviations? Its crazy how long they spend on stuff thats just not applicable in any way to the actual operation.

The crazier thing is with the placement system, how much money they spend to go OTS-CPC for someone who has 0% intention of staying where theyve been sent. So then the person they forced to ZOA finally finds a way to get back to Chicago or whatever, and they have to spend all that money again to train that person at ZAU. Its just absurd. Honestly if media had any idea of the amount of waste in the FAA, it would be a shit show haha. And thats just one agency :oops:

FAA likes NCEPT because its created more FLMs than any program ever lmao. And you cant blame someone stuck in Fremont, Palmdale, or Ronkonkoma who has no interest in living there, for taking an FLM job to get their family where they want to be. Just a totally and completely flawed system. And all at the expense of existing CPCs who are spending their time and energy, sacrificing breaks and effort, to train somebody who has no intention of actually working the traffic they're being trained on for 3 years, longterm. There has to be a better way than whatever TF this is.
 
Seems like FLM jobs aren’t even a good way to move anymore. I work at a lowish level tower in a decent city and we had an opening and there were around 10 applications with around half being people who were already FLMs. It seems like ATMs would select someone who is already an FLM rather than a controller who has to do all the training in addition to certifying.
 
CF said:
Seems like FLM jobs aren’t even a good way to move anymore. I work at a lowish level tower in a decent city and we had an opening and there were around 10 applications with around half being people who were already FLMs. It seems like ATMs would select someone who is already an FLM rather than a controller who has to do all the training in addition to certifying.
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Hit that high three then punch out to a lower level, cannot fault those FLM’s there.
 

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