November (Q1) 2021

CF said:
Honestly wouldn’t be surprised. They’ve been delaying panels when Covid goes up and we’re starting a new wave now in a lot of places.
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I would expect 6 months and plan for 9-12. Really gonna help me get off these 6 day work weeks. That and only picking up two every round.
 
Mike Kilo said:
I would expect 6 months and plan for 9-12. Really gonna help me get off these 6 day work weeks. That and only picking up two every round.
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Yeah idk why they keep doing that shit. I’m at a tower that releases fairly often and we’ve checked out 4 this year and are gonna probably have 2 more checked out in the first half of next year. There are places that are ready to release.
 
CF said:
Yeah idk why they keep doing that shit. I’m at a tower that releases fairly often and we’ve checked out 4 this year and are gonna probably have 2 more checked out in the first half of next year. There are places that are ready to release.
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I get the idea of taking off the limit. But I actually think the limit is good. Along with a year release. It sucks for everyone right now. But in a year, you could have 5 people over target checked out at small facilities. That means every panel someone is getting released. And it keeps going. People train replacements. Idk just my opinion. But they need a panel every 3 months.

So a facility every year could potentially release 8 people. Those 8 bodies don’t leave for a year, all while sending bodies to the facilities from academy. If your 8 and above there shouldn’t be a intake limit. Have the backlog at larger facilities.
 
Spaceforce said:
I get the idea of taking off the limit. But I actually think the limit is good. Along with a year release. It sucks for everyone right now. But in a year, you could have 5 people over target checked out at small facilities. That means every panel someone is getting released. And it keeps going. People train replacements. Idk just my opinion. But they need a panel every 3 months.

So a facility every year could potentially release 8 people. Those 8 bodies don’t leave for a year, all while sending bodies to the facilities from academy. If your 8 and above there shouldn’t be a intake limit. Have the backlog at larger facilities.
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I don’t mind 3 month releases but I think the standard should be higher to do one. There should probably be 3 tiers. 3 months 6 and 1 year.
 
Spaceforce said:
I get the idea of taking off the limit. But I actually think the limit is good. Along with a year release. It sucks for everyone right now. But in a year, you could have 5 people over target checked out at small facilities. That means every panel someone is getting released. And it keeps going. People train replacements. Idk just my opinion. But they need a panel every 3 months.

So a facility every year could potentially release 8 people. Those 8 bodies don’t leave for a year, all while sending bodies to the facilities from academy. If your 8 and above there shouldn’t be a intake limit. Have the backlog at larger facilities.
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Valid points for sure but this is still gonna bone the mid level facilities unless they put a 3 level cap on moves or something.

Not that I think a 3 level cap would necessarily be a fair thing to do when you have new hires going direct to centers while in that scenario it'd take someone who was hired to a level 5 two or three moves to get there on the terminal side, but it is what it is.

Then again, you can't always make everyone happy.
 
Peter Gibbons said:
Valid points for sure but this is still gonna bone the mid level facilities unless they put a 3 level cap on moves or something.

Not that I think a 3 level cap would necessarily be a fair thing to do when you have new hires going direct to centers while in that scenario it'd take someone who was hired to a level 5 two or three moves to get there on the terminal side, but it is what it is.

Then again, you can't always make everyone happy.
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Just put a cap on only terminal facility transfers.
 
Peter Gibbons said:
Valid points for sure but this is still gonna bone the mid level facilities unless they put a 3 level cap on moves or something.

Not that I think a 3 level cap would necessarily be a fair thing to do when you have new hires going direct to centers while in that scenario it'd take someone who was hired to a level 5 two or three moves to get there on the terminal side, but it is what it is.

Then again, you can't always make everyone happy.
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ajmezz said:
Just put a cap on only terminal facility transfers.
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Why not put a 2 level cap. Imagine how many people would fill those level 9s up?But I don’t like the idea of level caps. Hinders people from making more money.

Just do 1 year releases from now on. But when someone gets picked up, replace that body with someone from academy. But then the issue is someone can still turn it down. Doesn’t matter. Keep sending them.

This would fix people wanting to swap from 7s and below because they would always be fat staffed and ncept isn’t taking everyone. People can finally go to their home facilities. While others will want to move up and make more money, still can.

I’m full of stupid ideas, this might just be the cherry on top
 
Spaceforce said:
Why not put a 2 level cap. Imagine how many people would fill those level 9s up?But I don’t like the idea of level caps. Hinders people from making more money.

Just do 1 year releases from now on. But when someone gets picked up, replace that body with someone from academy. But then the issue is someone can still turn it down. Doesn’t matter. Keep sending them.

This would fix people wanting to swap from 7s and below because they would always be fat staffed and ncept isn’t taking everyone. People can finally go to their home facilities. While others will want to move up and make more money, still can.

I’m full of stupid ideas, this might just be the cherry on top
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Ya I don't really think they should stop people from trying, I'm also not really a fan of it, but it makes sense to do so.

If anything Faa/natca needs to do a better job making local Pipelines a thing at the bigger metroplexes with multiple facilities too. Like you should absolutely be able to settle your life and family in say the dallas/forth worth area, get hired on at afw/ftw/ads and have some sort of career path that doesn't involve you moving all over the country. Like if you told someone okay, wait it out at your lower level tower for a certain period of time and you get priority placement in the same area at a higher level facility as spots become available. I think a lot of people would jump on that and keep lower level places staffed if they knew within x amount of years they'd more than likely be where they wanted to be without having to go somewhere else in the meantime just to feel like they weren't stagnating.

I don't know what that would look like in the real world but it makes sense to me.
 
Peter Gibbons said:
Ya I don't really think they should stop people from trying, I'm also not really a fan of it, but it makes sense to do so.

If anything Faa/natca needs to do a better job making local Pipelines a thing at the bigger metroplexes with multiple facilities too. Like you should absolutely be able to settle your life and family in say the dallas/forth worth area, get hired on at afw/ftw/ads and have some sort of career path that doesn't involve you moving all over the country. Like if you told someone okay, wait it out at your lower level tower for a certain period of time and you get priority placement in the same area at a higher level facility as spots become available. I think a lot of people would jump on that and keep lower level places staffed if they knew within x amount of years they'd more than likely be where they wanted to be without having to go somewhere else in the meantime just to feel like they weren't stagnating.

I don't know what that would look like in the real world but it makes sense to me.
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So people that want to get to those higher level facilities from outside the area have to transfer to one of the lower levels facilities and then get thrown in the back of the queue that could take years to move up on and by then dynamic decisions will probably happen and they will never get to move.
 
boots said:
So people that want to get to those higher level facilities from outside the area have to transfer to one of the lower levels facilities and then get thrown in the back of the queue that could take years to move up on and by then dynamic decisions will probably happen and they will never get to move.
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Nah I mean just leave a certain portion of available slots for local people. Like if the big fac has 10 openings, 3 or 4 of them go to local lower level guys who put thier time in.

I dunno if I'm at d01 or something I'd rather have a trainee from bjc whose settled in, knows the area, knows the mva map and maybe some of the loas, is invested in staying in the area etc than the dude from bpt who is basically starting completely fresh and very well may plan on checking out and bidding out somewhere else once he has the big ticket to make him desirable, or put in that ERR because it was his ticket out of the humid hell of gulf coast TX and has no attachments to the area whatsoever.
 
Peter Gibbons said:
Nah I mean just leave a certain portion of available slots for local people. Like if the big fac has 10 openings, 3 or 4 of them go to local lower level guys who put thier time in.

I dunno if I'm at d01 or something I'd rather have a trainee from bjc whose settled in, knows the area, knows the mva map and maybe some of the loas, is invested in staying in the area etc than the dude from bpt who is basically starting completely fresh and very well may plan on checking out and bidding out somewhere else once he has the big ticket to make him desirable, or put in that ERR because it was his ticket out of the humid hell of gulf coast TX and has no attachments to the area whatsoever.
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Lol that you think any VFR tower knows more than their five miles of airspace. We can't even get our satellite towers to give us headings in the correct direction towards their departure gate
 
NCEPT should have two rounds to it. First round only people within three facility levels are considered. Once they blow through the list then run it a second time with everybody eligible. That way people aren’t prohibited from living up but the people putting on their mid level facility time get priority. Enroute excluded from the three level limit since AG are assigned it and I would also make them all a 10 on paper so they don’t steal all the terminal jobs. And get rid of the stupid restrictions on how many you can pick up. Apply restrictions to each facility not NAS wide. If ZNY has too many trainees don’t send them more, but don’t hamstring other facilities with only 2 selections. Ridiculous.
 
Mike Kilo said:
NCEPT should have two rounds to it. First round only people within three facility levels are considered. Once they blow through the list then run it a second time with everybody eligible. That way people aren’t prohibited from living up but the people putting on their mid level facility time get priority. Enroute excluded from the three level limit since AG are assigned it and I would also make them all a 10 on paper so they don’t steal all the terminal jobs. And get rid of the stupid restrictions on how many you can pick up. Apply restrictions to each facility not NAS wide. If ZNY has too many trainees don’t send them more, but don’t hamstring other facilities with only 2 selections. Ridiculous.
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The first part is actually a solid idea, but make it a 4 level cap. Anyone should be able to go to their big house level 12 dream facility in 2 moves, but it would also be favorable to the mid level places. Send all prior experience hires to level 8's and below, and only level 8's that don't have a list of err's long enough to adequately staff it. FLL shouldn't be getting prior exp hires when people are more than willing to ERR there. Everyone else goes to level 7's and below and has to work their way up like everyone else. Idk what prior experience you have either. If you leave the agency and want to reinstate or if you worked at the busiest military approach out there, you still start at the bottom of the faa ladder. The only exception to the rule being if you have good approach experience and volunteer to go direct to N90.
 
Acquired Taste said:
The first part is actually a solid idea, but make it a 4 level cap. Anyone should be able to go to their big house level 12 dream facility in 2 moves, but it would also be favorable to the mid level places. Send all prior experience hires to level 8's and below, and only level 8's that don't have a list of err's long enough to adequately staff it. FLL shouldn't be getting prior exp hires when people are more than willing to ERR there. Everyone else goes to level 7's and below and has to work their way up like everyone else. Idk what prior experience you have either. If you leave the agency and want to reinstate or if you worked at the busiest military approach out there, you still start at the bottom of the faa ladder. The only exception to the rule being if you have good approach experience and volunteer to go direct to N90.
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I’ll meet ya in the middle. 3.5 level cap…
 
Peter Gibbons said:
Nah I mean just leave a certain portion of available slots for local people. Like if the big fac has 10 openings, 3 or 4 of them go to local lower level guys who put thier time in.

I dunno if I'm at d01 or something I'd rather have a trainee from bjc whose settled in, knows the area, knows the mva map and maybe some of the loas, is invested in staying in the area etc than the dude from bpt who is basically starting completely fresh and very well may plan on checking out and bidding out somewhere else once he has the big ticket to make him desirable, or put in that ERR because it was his ticket out of the humid hell of gulf coast TX and has no attachments to the area whatsoever.
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It takes 3 days to learn the LOAs. BJC is a tower that runs a busy vfr pattern, it would be a terrible prep for D01
 
I always thought a 4 level cap makes a ton of sense. Unless, transferring to a Z.

No level 4 tower controller should be able to go right to D01.
 

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