New York Times names Controller involved with AUS FedEx/Southwest Incident

Spoony90 said:
I thought it was. I just had a conversation with my supe about how I need to stop running 3 miles on final because the FAA is transitioning to a “safety” culture and not an efficiency culture.
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Bingo the safest is definitely 7.
What type of miles in trail will I need in the enroute environment to transition to make sure this never happens at a tower.
 
Dolan said:
Talking to reporters anonymously is legal. Doxxing people is legal. I agree it sucks that this can happen but I don't see a way to prevent it.
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Maybe a civil lawsuit for defamation of character? We all know the media also stretches the facts for sensationalism anyway. You also stated that there’s a pretty severe lack of ethics in the media industry anymore.

Spoony90 said:
I thought it was. I just had a conversation with my supe about how I need to stop running 3 miles on final because the FAA is transitioning to a “safety” culture and not an efficiency culture.
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Is your separation legal? If the answer is yes, tell your supe to tongue-punch your fart box.
 
SquawkHijack said:
Maybe a civil lawsuit for defamation of character? We all know the media also stretches the facts for sensationalism anyway. You also stated that there’s a pretty severe lack of ethics in the media industry anymore.
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In order for there to be a defamation case, what was said would also have to be false lol you can’t sue someone for defamation simply because they told the truth about you 😂
 
RomeoTangoRT said:
In order for there to be a defamation case, what was said would also have to be false lol you can’t sue someone for defamation simply because they told the truth about you 😂
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Well I'd like a union email reminding people you are ONE clearance away from a newsworthy event (or what is deemed newsworthy) every time you key up. Said left instead of right? I'm not supporting gross judgement errors and poor quality controllers-but the fuck are we doing. Where's have a good day in the 7110, was that use of excess phraseology the factor in your error. Your Name constantly used excess verbiage in their laxadasical control methods. Listen to this compilation of audio transcripts from live atc net from the past 20 years. Cya was said over 100,000 times!

I mean seriously they could dress up anything.

That being said this guy's LIFE is in danger. How long until a passenger puts one and two together and shows up at his house?
 
Phillytroll69 said:
Well I'd like a union email reminding people you are ONE clearance away from a newsworthy event (or what is deemed newsworthy) every time you key up. Said left instead of right? I'm not supporting gross judgement errors and poor quality controllers-but the fuck are we doing. Where's have a good day in the 7110, was that use of excess phraseology the factor in your error. Your Name constantly used excess verbiage in their laxadasical control methods. Listen to this compilation of audio transcripts from live atc net from the past 20 years. Cya was said over 100,000 times!

I mean seriously they could dress up anything.

That being said this guy's LIFE is in danger. How long until a passenger puts one and two together and shows up at his house?
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LiveATC is only archived up to 30 days.

You shouldn’t have to be reminded you’re one clearance away from a newsworthy event, that’s a pretty baseline understanding. How many times throughout your ATC career have you been reminded that you are not talking to pilots on freq, you’re talking to lawyers who will decipher the 7110 in black and white terms and that should be a consideration when issuing control instructions?

The 7110 also says you can use plain language.

This guy’s “life is in danger” because they put everyone on that southwest flight live’s in danger. Tit for tat. It’s not without saying that this allegedly isn’t the first time they’ve been an immediate threat to people’s lives. It’s just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

I’ve also said the supes who have turned a blind eye to “dozens” of ATSAP reports on this controller should be named. If you’re complicit and willfully negligent of the safety of the flying public, you should be shamed and ousted and I stand by my belief.

“Future consequences are inevitably shaped by present actions.”

You reap what you sow. Aka fuck around and find out.
 
RomeoTangoRT said:
This guy’s “life is in danger” because they put everyone on that southwest flight live’s in danger. Tit for tat. It’s not without saying that this allegedly isn’t the first time they’ve been an immediate threat to people’s lives. It’s just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

I’ve also said the supes who have turned a blind eye to “dozens” of ATSAP reports on this controller should be named. If you’re complicit and willfully negligent of the safety of the flying public, you should be shamed and ousted and I stand by my belief
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We all have em in our facilities, that probably shouldn't be working.

WHY aren't we naming the supervisor? Some sups go the level 12 failure, level 8 failure, level 5 cpc for a year-> level 12 sup. That's our bosses. How could this controller know he was bad if he passed?

I AM NOT defending poor performance but thinking someone deserves to die? Should we just start publishing every soldier's name or police officer or firefighter or fellow atcer that's made a bad call.

It's not tit for tat when you are in a safety, judgement based field. Negligence is another story.
RomeoTangoRT said:
“Future consequences are inevitably shaped by present actions.”

You reap what you sow. Aka fuck around and find out.
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Exactly this sets a precedent of your name just casually coming out.
boots said:
Love how everyone in this thread magically forgot this dude should NOT be controlling airplanes.
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So why don't we publish his trainers that recommendation he had to have?
 
Phillytroll69 said:
We all have em in our facilities, that probably shouldn't be working.

WHY aren't we naming the supervisor? Some sups go the level 12 failure, level 8 failure, level 5 cpc for a year-> level 12 sup. That's our bosses. How could this controller know he was bad if he passed?

I AM NOT defending poor performance but thinking someone deserves to die? Should we just start publishing every soldier's name or police officer or firefighter or fellow atcer that's made a bad call.

It's not tit for tat when you are in a safety, judgement based field. Negligence is another story.

Exactly this sets a precedent of your name just casually coming out.

So why don't we publish his trainers that recommendation he had to have?
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I was under the impression he didn’t get qualified on the basis of what his primary trainers said but rather based on management sentiment and that there was pushback from trainers. Don’t quote me on that though.

Show me where any of us have any immunity from prejudice. Filing an ATSAP is about as close as it gets but when your incident is so bad it makes national news, all bets are off.

I’m in no way advocating for the guy to get death threats or anything further actionable but I am saying for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Complacency kills. In this instance, complacency would lie in the form of nobody being held responsible or accountable for their actions. It’s definitely not enough that only the controller was named. “How could the sup who went lvl 12 failure, 8 failure, 5 checkout, 12 sup know the controller is bad because he passed” is simple. You don’t ignore the alleged “dozens” of ATSAPs filed saying the controller is bad. One’s an anomaly, a few certainly raises suspicion, but “dozens” is a massive fucking red flag my guy and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to say hold up, wait a minute, something ain’t right.
 
RomeoTangoRT said:
In order for there to be a defamation case, what was said would also have to be false lol you can’t sue someone for defamation simply because they told the truth about you 😂
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That’s true, but then again we all know how the media walks a fine line stretching the truth. They talk about him “using code” by saying “one eight left cleared to land.” That shit is used in the NAS everyday especially at busy facilities and no one says a thing. I’m not using that example as an open shut win for a defamation case, just conveying a point that the media is notorious for stretching the truth to the point of not telling the truth…
 
I wonder how the sentiment here would shift (if at all) if this controller were generally well-liked and mostly safe, but then made this critical error. Would we all be saying the same things? Or if the situation was slightly shifted... more space on final, but Southwest took extensive time on the runway....
I mean, the spacing was obviously bad, but the most glaring part to me is the lack of request for a rolling call. When you don't get it by the time you need it, FedEx goes around, easy peasy... except a few colleagues of mine have never even seen conditions where that's necessary, and might not remember to ask for that (especially when fatigued).

Anyway, this whole thing got me curious... how many controllers get named by the media? I found BBQ cat guy. Families of those who died had a bit to say about him.
OTOH, I didn't see Vegas drug girl's name mentioned anywhere. Maybe because she quit.
 
RomeoTangoRT said:
I was under the impression he didn’t get qualified on the basis of what his primary trainers said but rather based on management sentiment and that there was pushback from trainers. Don’t quote me on that though.

Show me where any of us have any immunity from prejudice. Filing an ATSAP is about as close as it gets but when your incident is so bad it makes national news, all bets are off.

I’m in no way advocating for the guy to get death threats or anything further actionable but I am saying for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Complacency kills. In this instance, complacency would lie in the form of nobody being held responsible or accountable for their actions. It’s definitely not enough that only the controller was named. “How could the sup who went lvl 12 failure, 8 failure, 5 checkout, 12 sup know the controller is bad because he passed” is simple. You don’t ignore the alleged “dozens” of ATSAPs filed saying the controller is bad. One’s an anomaly, a few certainly raises suspicion, but “dozens” is a massive fucking red flag my guy and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to say hold up, wait a minute, something ain’t right.
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sups don’t get at saps
 
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Phillytroll69 said:
We all have em in our facilities, that probably shouldn't be working.

WHY aren't we naming the supervisor? Some sups go the level 12 failure, level 8 failure, level 5 cpc for a year-> level 12 sup. That's our bosses. How could this controller know he was bad if he passed?

I AM NOT defending poor performance but thinking someone deserves to die? Should we just start publishing every soldier's name or police officer or firefighter or fellow atcer that's made a bad call.

It's not tit for tat when you are in a safety, judgement based field. Negligence is another story.

Exactly this sets a precedent of your name just casually coming out.

So why don't we publish his trainers that recommendation he had to have?
Click to expand...
Trainers were probably forced into it considering this guy has a history of complaints against his co workers
 
ATCJoe85 said:
Anyway, this whole thing got me curious... how many controllers get named by the media? I found BBQ cat guy. Families of those who died had a bit to say about him.
OTOH, I didn't see Vegas drug girl's name mentioned anywhere. Maybe because she quit.
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LAX controller who killed all those people by landing a 737 on a skywest in 1991 was named in the paper. She lives in seclusion to this day
 

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