C90 Training Failure

The part about you, as a tower only person, getting picked up as a supervisor at a ARTCC is one of the biggest problems with the Agency now. Especially, when high level radar controllers are being bypassed for those supervisor positions because their facilities can’t release them without deviations, including people currently at ZAU. This whole FAN approach to management selections (favoritism, availability, nepotism) is why the Agency’s standards have turned into absolute shit. People should move up to a mid level/lower high level facility, get more experienced, and then move to the highest level facilities, as controllers, first then supervisors. The Agency wouldn’t have this issue if we had more controllers, but people are given limited options because of short staffing, NCEPT, and priority release bids. How in the hell does the Agency think current practice is a good idea at all?

I’m sorry you moved across the country, but you didn’t set yourself up for success by going someone else to gain radar experience first before going to C90. A good Agency, would have allowed you the ability to move to say Phoenix or Salt Lake City or St. Louis, for a few years, before making the move to Chicago. I don’t think any person should be moving to a higher level radar facility (say level 10 and up) without having radar experience. It’s hard to explain to people that get here or C90 or N90 until they actually experience and see it for themselves how hard of a transition it is to work traffic. It’s completely different than working a lower level facility or a mid level tower. Meanwhile, we have a CPC, here at A80, who can’t get selected at C90 despite ranking number one on their ranked list because of “staffing.”Wonderful Agency decisions made all around!
I think the staffing solution could be resolved by making localized bids for every facility.

It’s the only realistic strategy to get movement at every level. Once staffing is at a high enough level to release. The releases will be afforded only to CPCs that have been there before the localized bids, and they will be given the chance to move based on seniority. If they decide to stay they will be passed over until the rest of CPCs have been asked. Only after all the old CPCs get their one chance to move. They could then move to the system we have now.

If they do not do something different we will continue to lose staffing to early retirement, resignation, better opportunities.
 
The part about you, as a tower only person, getting picked up as a supervisor at a ARTCC is one of the biggest problems with the Agency now. Especially, when high level radar controllers are being bypassed for those supervisor positions because their facilities can’t release them without deviations, including people currently at ZAU. This whole FAN approach to management selections (favoritism, availability, nepotism) is why the Agency’s standards have turned into absolute shit. People should move up to a mid level/lower high level facility, get more experienced, and then move to the highest level facilities, as controllers, first then supervisors. The Agency wouldn’t have this issue if we had more controllers, but people are given limited options because of short staffing, NCEPT, and priority release bids. How in the hell does the Agency think current practice is a good idea at all?

I’m sorry you moved across the country, but you didn’t set yourself up for success by going someone else to gain radar experience first before going to C90. A good Agency, would have allowed you the ability to move to say Phoenix or Salt Lake City or St. Louis, for a few years, before making the move to Chicago. I don’t think any person should be moving to a higher level radar facility (say level 10 and up) without having radar experience. It’s hard to explain to people that get here or C90 or N90 until they actually experience and see it for themselves how hard of a transition it is to work traffic. It’s completely different than working a lower level facility or a mid level tower. Meanwhile, we have a CPC, here at A80, who can’t get selected at C90 despite ranking number one on their ranked list because of “staffing.”Wonderful Agency decisions made all around!
I can’t speak much to the first part of your comment. I do agree, someone with my experience should not be picked up for that position. I believe the topic is very complicated and has more moving parts than me, a lowly controller, is privy to. All that to say, I’m unsure what the answer is overall for the agency except that we need appropriate staffing numbers. Until we get there, we’ll continue going ‘round and ‘round.

As for the later portion of your comment, my general sentiment was that I didn’t want to make the jump directly from my facility to C90. I wanted to go to a lower level facility first and later C90. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get released. I literally had NCEPT paperwork submitted for years. In hindsight I can say this entire waste of time and energy happened because NCEPT did not work for me. I think we all know NCEPT has many shortfalls and the program should be reconsidered. Having said that, this is another incredibly complicated topic for which one answer is better staffing numbers for the agency.

As for your comments overall, the choice of words people use in online forums so interesting. I believe you intended to convey your dissatisfaction with several agency issues, but began with an accusatory tone directed at myself; that I was wrong for applying to either position I ultimately received offers for. In the end I was simply a motivated controller looking for personal and vocational advancement in an agency not conducive to those aspirations. So I settle.
 
Damn man I woulda at least tried to get some training time on the floor... Sims have so little to do with the real operation
Some of our better controllers barely made it through the sims. A few that breezed through the sims became nervous wrecks and nearly washed on the floor when having to work live traffic, and are still fairly weak and nervous controllers years later. I agree 100% with this.

Also, while being at supe at ZAU would probably mean you are still physically in Chicago, I highly doubt OP would be "happy" with the actual job itself.
 
Some of our better controllers barely made it through the sims. A few that breezed through the sims became nervous wrecks and nearly washed on the floor when having to work live traffic, and are still fairly weak and nervous controllers years later. I agree 100% with this.

Also, while being at supe at ZAU would probably mean you are still physically in Chicago, I highly doubt OP would be "happy" with the actual job itself.
Should have had the two of you there to coerce me.
 
Thanks for sharing man. I wish it had turned out differently and having to head all the way back across the country, made things more difficult I'm sure. I hope you look back on it eventually and are glad you gave it a shot.
 
I’ve seen people coerced and they ended up in a worse place in life. I’ve seen people quit altogether and also medical out because they were too nervous. Just do what feels right to you, not others.
There’s also no coercion needed. Working at these type of TRACON facilities requires a certain level of skill but also a level of mental toughness. Whether that’s air traffic related when shit gets bad or dealing with the personalities there. Training requires an extra level of that but it’s in a way seeing those out that don’t have it. Never heard someone say they missed a trainee that self terminated because “maybe they would have been a good controller here”.
 
There’s also no coercion needed. Working at these type of TRACON facilities requires a certain level of skill but also a level of mental toughness. Whether that’s air traffic related when shit gets bad or dealing with the personalities there. Training requires an extra level of that but it’s in a way seeing those out that don’t have it. Never heard someone say they missed a trainee that self terminated because “maybe they would have been a good controller here”.
We are not Toledo or Monroe or Great Falls. We cannot teach you the basics of terminal radar WHILE teaching C to A. Tower only controllers have not had a lot of success at big tracons. We’ve HAD many successful checkouts from people coming from Cedar Rapids, Albany, Des Moines and Rockford. If you want to work at a big Tracon, have some approach experience and then make your money
 
We are not Toledo or Monroe or Great Falls. We cannot teach you the basics of terminal radar WHILE teaching C to A. Tower only controllers have not had a lot of success at big tracons. We’ve HAD many successful checkouts from people coming from Cedar Rapids, Albany, Des Moines and Rockford. If you want to work at a big Tracon, have some approach experience and then make your money
What about a high level up/down? Curious your thoughts on the matter.
 
What about a high level up/down? Curious your thoughts on the matter.
No one knows. Some people have it and some don’t. No one really knows until you’re plugged in and doing it. Some people with no radar experience make it, not a lot, but it has happened. Some people from other level 12s look worse than the people with no radar experience. Not all of them but it also happens as well. Theres really nothing that can explain and quantify what you and I want to know about the skill of people applying.
 
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