NCEPT debate thread

CaptainObvious said:
So is NATCA sensing some unhappiness? New open season “collective” campaign to grow the union
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I thought that was more a Social Justice Warrior pitch. Like heynlets all come together in divided times. If you follow NATCA Facebook you'll see they're all in to every cause of the day.... No matter how far from ATC it may be. Its basically like watching MSNBC. Some love it, some would rather change channel. Either way they're all in to the woke causes!
 
PushingTin said:
I thought that was more a Social Justice Warrior pitch. Like heynlets all come together in divided times. If you follow NATCA Facebook you'll see they're all in to every cause of the day.... No matter how far from ATC it may be. Its basically like watching MSNBC. Some love it, some would rather change channel. Either way they're all in to the woke causes!
Click to expand...
Eh, it's to show they support the members. Politically they will put ATC first, in public they will support causes of all types for the members. As you said, love and join it or turn the channel. It's not all or nothing either. The plan is always to hit at some heart string of, well, let's be honest N, you don't have a heart. As for everyone else, you get my point. 😉 As for ncept, hard to defend this ?pile of ?. Is it better than what we had? Sure, but man, what a ???? low bar we set for ourselves.

We can always privatize. Get better equipment like France and Spain!

www.thesun.co.uk

Thousands of Brit families stranded abroad after air traffic control fails

THOUSANDS of Brits are today stranded miles away from home after French air traffic control problems grounded hundreds of flights. As families arrived at airports to jet home from their summer brea…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk
 
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I think the open season is complete bull shit. All these non members can now get in, without penalty, even though the union has had to represent them this entire time. The only time we ever have solidarity is when we sell t-shirts. Other than that (minus the few who truly care about the collective), it seems to be every man for themselves.
 
PushingTin said:
I think they are worried about a mass exodus in January in light of all the discontent w the flawed NCEPT process.
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This could be right, I also expect way more people then normal leaving in January who had their careers ruined by NCEPT, and this open season could help balance out the losses. Is the waving of penalties really going to make a difference though? In almost every circumstance I ever seen when a non-member joined the Fac Rep waived and refunded their "penalty dues". I hate that, it's like rewarding the problem and trying to buy your way into getting a member to make your facility closer to 100%. I would rather just go a man short then get a new member like that, do you think people like that would ever donate to the PAC or make any contribution to the union other then starting to pay generic dues again?
 
With a new NCEPT panel approaching, we are seeing more negativity about the program pop up again. Frankly, I am quite sick of it and can't keep quiet any longer.

The best defense of the NCEPT program I can provide is to talk about my mid-level up-down facility. Here's our situation: We have decent staffing now - not great, but not really hurting. Luckily, we have approximately 45,000 trainees.

NCEPT has decreed that we cannot lose any of our workforce to transfers. That makes sense and all, I suppose. The poor shouldn't be out there lendin' nickles. But then I started figurin' that our staffing wouldn't be so bad by the time we would release someone picked up on this panel. Heck, we'd be darn near 100% staffed. But we ain't 100% today and that's what counts.

So, on account of our staffing troubles, I was interested to see how many transfers we could accept. Zero. That's odd, until you consider the fact that math was used in the development of NCEPT. I'm talking formulas - complicated ones. I did some digging to find out just how in the heck my facility is so under-staffed and yet can't get any new people. Turns out we have too many trainees. Isn't that somethin'? Too many trainees. When I think hard about it, it starts to make sense, even to a simpleton controller like me. You can't train too many folks at once. But then I started thinkin' that, by the time someone selected this panel would have gotten here, it wouldn't be so bad to train 'em on account of some of the trainees being certified and such. But then I have to remind myself about all the math and that NCEPT knows best. I'll just let the brainiacs work everything out.

We have too many employees and not enough at the same time. Ain't that the darndest thing?
 
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Charlie_Foxtrot said:
With a new NCEPT panel approaching, we are seeing more negativity about the program pop up again. Frankly, I am quite sick of it and can't keep quiet any longer.

The best defense of the NCEPT program I can provide is to talk about my mid-level up-down facility. Here's our situation: We have decent staffing now - not great, but not really hurting. Luckily, we have approximately 45,000 trainees.

NCEPT has decreed that we cannot lose any of our workforce to transfers. That makes sense and all, I suppose. The poor shouldn't be out there lendin' nickles. But then I started figurin' that our staffing wouldn't be so bad by the time we would release someone picked up on this panel. Heck, we'd be darn near 100% staffed. But we ain't 100% today and that's what counts.

So, on account of our staffing troubles, I was interested to see how many transfers we could accept. Zero. That's odd, until you consider the fact that math was used in the development of NCEPT. I'm talking formulas - complicated ones. I did some digging to find out just how in the heck my facility is so under-staffed and yet can't get any new people. Turns out we have too many trainees. Isn't that somethin'? Too many trainees. When I think hard about it, it starts to make sense, even to a simpleton controller like me. You can't train too many folks at once. But then I started thinkin' that, by the time someone selected this panel would have gotten here, it wouldn't be so bad to train 'em on account of some of the trainees being certified and such. But then I have to remind myself about all the math and that NCEPT knows best. I'll just let the brainiacs work everything out.

We have too many employees and not enough at the same time. Ain't that the darndest thing?
Click to expand...

Huh
 
Charlie_Foxtrot said:
With a new NCEPT panel approaching, we are seeing more negativity about the program pop up again. Frankly, I am quite sick of it and can't keep quiet any longer.

The best defense of the NCEPT program I can provide is to talk about my mid-level up-down facility. Here's our situation: We have decent staffing now - not great, but not really hurting. Luckily, we have approximately 45,000 trainees.

NCEPT has decreed that we cannot lose any of our workforce to transfers. That makes sense and all, I suppose. The poor shouldn't be out there lendin' nickles. But then I started figurin' that our staffing wouldn't be so bad by the time we would release someone picked up on this panel. Heck, we'd be darn near 100% staffed. But we ain't 100% today and that's what counts.

So, on account of our staffing troubles, I was interested to see how many transfers we could accept. Zero. That's odd, until you consider the fact that math was used in the development of NCEPT. I'm talking formulas - complicated ones. I did some digging to find out just how in the heck my facility is so under-staffed and yet can't get any new people. Turns out we have too many trainees. Isn't that somethin'? Too many trainees. When I think hard about it, it starts to make sense, even to a simpleton controller like me. You can't train too many folks at once. But then I started thinkin' that, by the time someone selected this panel would have gotten here, it wouldn't be so bad to train 'em on account of some of the trainees being certified and such. But then I have to remind myself about all the math and that NCEPT knows best. I'll just let the brainiacs work everything out.

We have too many employees and not enough at the same time. Ain't that the darndest thing?
Click to expand...

I am now dumber after reading that.
 
nbtbtz said:
Your training standards might be too high. Run them trainees through!
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That's what the new training initiative is for....run 'em through wash 'em out. It's not the FAA's fault you started in November and ran out of hours in January in the Northeast without talking to a single airplane.
 
MikeDelta said:
That's what the new training initiative is for....run 'em through wash 'em out. It's not the FAA's fault you started in November and ran out of hours in January in the Northeast without talking to a single airplane.
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?

I seem to remember them wanting to train on pushes and not wasting hours. That was much more productive
 
MikeDelta said:
That's what the new training initiative is for....run 'em through wash 'em out. It's not the FAA's fault you started in November and ran out of hours in January in the Northeast without talking to a single airplane.
Click to expand...

The national training order says to put times on the form that no aircraft were talked to and you can get that time back.
 

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