Shoot The Breeze

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CaptainObvious said:
Correct
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It’s absolutely ridiculous. Every facrep and RVP says they don’t have any information because the decisions are being made at the national level, but there has been absolutely no communication from national leadership whatsoever. In FOUR MONTHS!

The national “workgroup” was formed in April. People learned about that through the grapevine or on a forum like this one. No mention from NATCA national.

A few weeks ago, they decided to to start this Zoom class idea at facilities. People learned about that through the grapevine or on a forum like this one. No heads up from NATCA national.

Supposedly, early this month the workgroup submitted a recommendation to restart training on the 15th, which the agency later rejected because of the coronavirus ‘surge.’ Another national email today, and absolutely no mention of it.
 
NN9419 said:
It’s absolutely ridiculous. Every facrep and RVP says they don’t have any information because the decisions are being made at the national level, but there has been absolutely no communication from national leadership whatsoever. In FOUR MONTHS!

The national “workgroup” was formed in April. People learned about that through the grapevine or on a forum like this one. No mention from NATCA national.

A few weeks ago, they decided to to start this Zoom class idea at facilities. People learned about that through the grapevine or on a forum like this one. No heads up from NATCA national.

Supposedly, early this month the workgroup submitted a recommendation to restart training on the 15th, which the agency later rejected because of the coronavirus ‘surge.’ Another national email today, and absolutely no mention of it.
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Maybe they’ll furlough people and you’ll hear about on the forum
 
aaran34 said:
Thousands of current CPC’s went through OKC making 500-1000 a paycheck without COLA for housing. Thousands of current CPC’s had training delays. Thousands of current CPC’s checked out under the white book making a comparable salary to the current D2-D3 pay. It took me 4 years as a CPC to reach full pay. Hell, my level 11 CPC pay under the white book was less than my current trainees D3 pay at a 10. (side note: my trainee busted his ass 6-7 hours a day to get those d-side raises in before the training hold.)

But guess what? We didn’t bitch and moan about it, especially to CPC’s. We didn’t shit on NATCA because our entitlement wasn’t filled. We took our lumps training, we took out shit pay, we took our delays and made the best of it. I guess it’s hard for trainees to understand something so simple as that. I’m sorry for your lost wages.
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I was there, and there was DEFINITELY complaining. Now I agree that trainees didn't complain about and bash NATCA like they do now. But there was a ton of complaining back then

aaran34 said:
The majority of BUE’s

Yes, I live in Erie. Yes, that puts me at ZDV. I guess my Boomer style username and asshole personally gives it away.
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Why do yall hate ZLA so much lol

Nhstadt said:
I mean while I wait a year in between training stages, what else am I supposed to do but kick my feet up on the desk? I'm not talking covid here, I understand it's an act of God (or chyyyynah if you are PushingTin), but the absolute failure of both the agency and NATCA to do anything about the training issues in the agency aside from implement some nearly impossible to maintain standard, instead of telling facilities to fix their training programs and find ways to speed things up is asinine and counterproductive.

The "this is how we've always done it, so it's not broke" attitude is exactly why I fucking hate this job about half the time.
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It's really the overall government's fault. You can't really fault NATCA or the FAA when their superiors aren't giving them much to work with
 
mnsalty said:
NATCA loves to brag about how they negotiated this that and the other thing. Why aren’t they doing anything to fix training culture in general?
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I was just talking the COVID19 situation. Training culture in general? I don't know. I can tell you its better now than it was 10 years ago

aaran34 said:
I remember when trainees were seen and not heard. They passed breaks to work busy traffic, they didn’t call in sick, they didn’t put in shift changes because 3rd swings were too inconvenient, they didn’t COMPLAIN about their pay. Good ole first post!
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White book trainee here and I did all things you said we didn't do lol
 
DankVectorz said:
the biggest problem as you may learn later is that training people fucking sucks and it completely saps whatever joy one might have in working traffic*. I’ll gladly trade working 6 days if it means I never have to train someone again. But when you have 2-3 trainees and every minute of position time is spent watching someone else it just kills me.

*there are some people who genuinely enjoy training people. If you’re a trainee find that person.
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And you think the people who trained you didn't feel the same way about training? It's a part of the job description. A CPC complaining about training is like a trainee complaining about skill checks or map test. It's all a part of the process

mnsalty said:
so to be clear you believe others should endure the same bad experience as you because ... .... ..... ?
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All I was saying is as a trainee 10+ years ago I did call in sick, I did request 3rd day swings and I did all the other things that are so called "bad" for trainees to do. Basically I hate the whole, "well trainees in my day blah blah blah." It doesn't matter
 
ATCNOMAD said:
All I was saying is as a trainee 10+ years ago I did call in sick, I did request 3rd day swings and I did all the other things that are so called "bad" for trainees to do. Basically I hate the whole, "well trainees in my day blah blah blah." It doesn't matter
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Some trainees do that now and some don’t. Some CPCs bang out once a week.
 
ATCNOMAD said:
All I was saying is as a trainee 10+ years ago I did call in sick, I did request 3rd day swings and I did all the other things that are so called "bad" for trainees to do. Basically I hate the whole, "well trainees in my day blah blah blah." It doesn't matter
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ohhhh my bad. good on you sorry
 
mnsalty said:
Another NATCA email, not a peep about or regarding trainees whatsoever.
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They're (STILL) way more interested in being Social Justice Warriors than advocating for ATC. I'm still waiting for my "Respect Our Treaties" tshirt in girls medium!!! Let's GOooo

unnamed-5.jpg

mnsalty said:
NATCA loves to brag about how they negotiated this that and the other thing. Why aren’t they doing anything to fix training culture in general?
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I hope you understand (and think you probably do) that some facilities treat trainees like less than real people and often as barriers to keeping their steady stream of OT. There literally is incentive to not check people out or to claim certain facilities are just tooooo busy and complex for dumb off the street trainees to ever be able to comprehend. Give us 15% extra OJTI/CIP/Whatever and some more bonuses and we will at least give it the ol college try! Not only is this sanctified by the ppl you want to "fix" the training culture, its systemically baked into the cake and entire model. Why do u think the big dig cost billions over budget? ???
 
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