Terminal Placement list 10/26/2022

[breakaway2000]

Where can I find this in writing?

"We have made a minor adjustment to the NEST SOP in regards to the manner in which CPC-ITs are processed. For those CPC-ITs who are unsuccessful in, or withdraw from, training at their new facility and wish to return to their previous facility these individuals will no longer have to wait until the next NEST panel. Rather, they will be placed at their previous facility should a vacancy exist. This should eliminate some of the waiting that is experienced in the field. The NEST has rarely, if ever, recommended removal for anyone in this category and the NEST review was basically a pro forma exercise.

The new language for the SOP is below. If anyone has any questions, please let me know."


1.1.3: If an employee was a CPC at their previous facility, who subsequently withdraws or is terminated from training at their current facility, and has submitted a written request to return to their previous facility and not receive a listing of facilities, the ATM will notify the Manager of the Air Traffic Services Team and the Service Center POC of the request to return to their previous facility. If the facility is below the 100% projected CPC to Target then the employee will be placed at their previous facility.

 

[Homsar]

Where can I find this in writing?

What breakaway posted is available on the NEST section, Facility Placement Dashboard on the FAA intranet

 

[boilergirl87]

I was under the understanding that if a facility had people wanting to ERR there that they would get the first go at it. However, this doesn't seem to be the case as there are a couple facilities on there that say reserved for NEST people where either people I know or myself personally have an ERR in. Is that not the case? Thanks!

Well, that really sucks. Thanks you, though, for clearing that up for me, appreciate it

 

[Homsar]

"The NEST has rarely, if ever, recommended removal for anyone in this category and the NEST review was basically a pro forma exercise."

According to records posted on KSN, the NEST did recommend removal of 7 CPC-ITs in the past few years. I do wonder why, maybe they washed out of two facilities in a row? The contract does state that if you wash out twice, you "may" be retained, but I've heard unconfirmed stories of people washing out of 2+ facilities and keeping their job.

 

[breakaway2000]

Well, that really sucks. Thanks you, though, for clearing that up for me, appreciate it

What Homsar said it correct, if it's like past panels, they aim to have it resolved prior to the NCEPT meeting. Every spot on a NEST list has to be accompanied by a "Reserved for..." spot on the placement list. Not all will be selected. The NEST selections should finish shortly so you'll at least know how many vacancy's exist at each facility prior to the NCEPT meeting.

 

[breakaway2000]

According to records posted on KSN, the NEST did recommend removal of 7 CPC-ITs in the past few years. I do wonder why, maybe they washed out of two facilities in a row? The contract does state that if you wash out twice, you "may" be retained, but I've heard unconfirmed stories of people washing out of 2+ facilities and keeping their job.

There are 3 ways in which the NEST will recommend removal of a CPC-IT.
1) As you mentioned, it is their second consecutive wash out.
2) The employee has no desire to continue controlling and tells their TRB this. Ex. They accepted a job elsewhere (DOD, Military, Overseas, etc.) and are simply going through the motions to continue to get a paycheck from the FAA as long as possible.
3) Similar to 2, the employee is eligible to retire and has no intention of leaving their current location, but is hanging on long enough to get an addition year of service, keep getting paid, etc.

Also, the NEST panel recommendation, the ATM recommendation, and the District Office recommendation is still at it's core, a recommendation. They do not have the power to fire you. I do not have the most recent 6 months worth of data, but out of the 7 you quoted above, I can confirm that 1 was still sent back to their previous facility even with a recommendation to remove from the NEST, 1 was a two time training failure and was still kept in the agency as an Air Traffic Assistant, and 1 withdrew from training and quit the agency.

 

[Homsar]

Thanks for the insight. Random rambling: It seems the contract conflicts with the NEST SOP a bit with regard to CPC-IT's washing out of two consecutive facilities and requesting to go back to their previously certified facility, IMO.

One doesn't stop being a CPC-IT when they wash out of one facility and get placed at another, so by the NEST SOP, they should technically be able to withdraw and request to go back to the facility they were certified at even if they failed once and were retained for a "second chance." The whole "may be retained" part of the contract could certainly be applicable to a NEST panel, but the return rights should be always approved, especially since you're not waiting for a NEST panel with the change just announced.

 

[Homsar]

Well, that really sucks. Thanks you, though, for clearing that up for me, appreciate it

Is there any facility you're looking for specifically? They updated this list on KSN today with the facilities they're offering controllers retained in my NEST panel, so there's a little insight as to how the panel will affect the next NCEPT, and I could see how it affects what facility you had in mind, if at all.

 

[breakaway2000]

Thanks for the insight. Random rambling: It seems the contract conflicts with the NEST SOP a bit with regard to CPC-IT's washing out of two consecutive facilities and requesting to go back to their previously certified facility, IMO.

One doesn't stop being a CPC-IT when they wash out of one facility and get placed at another, so by the NEST SOP, they should technically be able to withdraw and request to go back to the facility they were certified at even if they failed once and were retained for a "second chance." The whole "may be retained" part of the contract could certainly be applicable to a NEST panel, but the return rights should be always approved, especially since you're not waiting for a NEST panel with the change just announced.

It's a fair point. If anyone is in this situation I would absolutely get clarity from the Manager of the Air Traffic Services Team before withdrawing from training. I'm simply speculating, but I can see it being allowed if your previous CPC facility was over 100% and was not offered to you during the NEST, but is now available.

 

[boilergirl87]

Is there any facility you're looking for specifically? They updated this list on KSN today with the facilities they're offering controllers retained in my NEST panel, so there's a little insight as to how the panel will affect the next NCEPT, and I could see how it affects what facility you had in mind, if at all.

Yeah, I'm trying to get to COS. Been trying to get there for 3 years and I think this will be the first time they're getting anyone new (if someone selects it) since the new ERR process took effect. Little bummed that I may miss my chance this time. I was also trying to get to APA and was bummed when they sent two previous experience new hires there. Feel like I'm being blocked at every turn. Ah well, so if life in the FAA I suppose.

 

[breakaway2000]

Yeah, I'm trying to get to COS. Been trying to get there for 3 years and I think this will be the first time they're getting anyone new (if someone selects it) since the new ERR process took effect. Little bummed that I may miss my chance this time. I was also trying to get to APA and was bummed when they sent two previous experience new hires there. Feel like I'm being blocked at every turn. Ah well, so if life in the FAA I suppose.

COS can still pick up 2, but you'll have to remain eligible after the first NCEPT pass. They're currently above the projected national average so they can't select anyone on the first pass.

 

[boilergirl87]

COS can still pick up 2, but you'll have to remain eligible after the first NCEPT pass. They're currently above the projected national average so they can't select anyone on the first pass.

The first pass? Meaning the next panel in December? Sorry, still trying to figure all this out. Feels like it changes all the time!

 

[corn4ahead]

COS can still pick up 2, but you'll have to remain eligible after the first NCEPT pass. They're currently above the projected national average so they can't select anyone on the first pass.

It's less about the amount of people they can select and more about how high on the priority list they are.

 

[Homsar]

The first pass? Meaning the next panel in December? Sorry, still trying to figure all this out. Feels like it changes all the time!

In a nutshell, no one else from your facility can transfer to facilities the FAA determines have more need for transfers than COS to the point where your facility is ineligible to let anyone transfer.

Example: If your facility can only let two go, and two people get picked up for LAX, you cannot go to COS even if it's under 100%. If your facility can let 3 go, and no one else has paperwork in to facilities with more priority than COS, you would be selected for COS.

 

[breakaway2000]

The first pass? Meaning the next panel in December? Sorry, still trying to figure all this out. Feels like it changes all the time!

If you look at the NCEPT facility priority list, the NCEPT team will make two passes. On the first pass, only facilities that are below the projected national average can select eligible ERR's. Without going into infinite what if scenarios, in practice, each facility can select X amount of ERR's to bring them up to the national average on the first pass. Once then NCEPT team has made a complete pass, a second pass will be made that allows facilities 9 and under to staff up to 100% projected staffing. They can only select from those candidates that are still eligible after the first pass (facility still meets the criteria for Cat 1 or Cat 2).
In simplified terms, if your facility can only release 1 person, if anyone gets selected to a facility below the national average, you will not have a chance to get to COS. It's very difficult to stay eligible to make it to the 2nd pass.

It's less about the amount of people they can select and more about how high on the priority list they are.

We both know the ins and outs. Both aspects are important.

 

[breakaway2000]

Thank you everyone for the clarification. Just to make sure I have it straight, here's my facility's accurate example. We will be able to release one next panel. Myself and one other person have ERRs in, me to COS and a few others and the other controller has one into BNA. Let's say BNA is ranked higher than COS (which it probably will be). If the other controller is NOT selected to BNA in the first round, do I still have a chance at COS or even APA (if they are less than 100% projected)?

Depends on what 'a few others' means, you might get selected for one of those prior to BNA. You can PM me the places you have ERRs to and I can give you a full write up.
FYI, APA is ~107% projected and unable to select anyone this panel.

 

[rugbydog11]

Depends on what 'a few others' means, you might get selected for one of those prior to BNA. You can PM me the places you have ERRs to and I can give you a full write up.
FYI, APA is ~107% projected and unable to select anyone this panel.

107.. Good thing they sent those direct hires there to make sure they have adequate staffing...

 

[Rebecca Miller]

Any update on when the next list might be available?

 

[breakaway2000]

OKC and ICT are back on the academy list for the class graduating on 9/18. Unless they graduate 16 people they'll be left for the next class.

 

[Wizard]

OKC and ICT are back on the academy list for the class graduating on 9/18. Unless they graduate 16 people they'll be left for the next class.

Lol, I think the only 7 we had on our list was if everyone passed and they are giving 8s out 2 weeks later.