2023 ARTCC Traffic Counts

[ncssailor]

What math? You can’t do the math. It’s impossible. The tool that would tell you doesn’t even exist. You dont give an altimeter in class A lol. It really depends where you are. You could be sequencing to several different airports at the same time. Or you could be working an ultra high and not doing much

You’re not interested in looking at total facility ops/number of controllers…average ops per year per controller.
Divide that by average amount of days worked per year and you get a roughly whopping 40ish ops per day depending on facility. If you can do the numbers another way please share!

 

[32andBelow]

You’re not interested in looking at total facility ops/number of controllers…average ops per year per controller.
Divide that by average amount of days worked per year and you get a roughly whopping 40ish ops per day depending on facility. If you can do the numbers another way please share!

Maybe go monitor a center for a couple hours. Do you put more than 40 planes out of the gate or get more that 40 planes into the arrival gate per day? Per hour?

 

[ncssailor]

Maybe go monitor a center for a couple hours. Do you put more than 40 planes out of the gate or get more that 40 planes into the arrival gate per day?

Maybe certain areas do. So how many ops per hour over a couple hours split up by how many controllers working that position over that time frame…..
Plenty of area’s definitely not doing that or have anything close to a core 30 in their areas.

 

[32andBelow]

The p

Maybe certain areas do. So how many ops per hour over a couple hours split up by how many controllers working that position over that time frame…..
Plenty of area’s definitely not doing that or have anything close to a core 30 in their areas.

Planes take off and then fly through many sectors in the same center. They literally don’t know how to count it

 

[ncssailor]

The p

Planes take off and then fly through many sectors in the same center. They literally don’t know how to count it

Right so some getting their balls kicked and others have it quite easier and get paid the same. I’ve seen it many times on here center or large Tracon people talking shit about low level places like they don’t work busy traffic and are undeserving to make more money. I tell ya what working more planes that are all inside of five miles of airspace vs working all planes 5 miles apart if very different. One mistake in the terminal environment can create a whole hell of a lot more problems and we don’t even have all the fancy shit Z’s have. Oh you’re going to have a conflict here…do something about it blah blah blah.

 

[Deuce]

You’re not interested in looking at total facility ops/number of controllers…average ops per year per controller.
Divide that by average amount of days worked per year and you get a roughly whopping 40ish ops per day depending on facility. If you can do the numbers another way please share!

This isn't really a useful metric at all lol

Small facility might have one position open, 1 controller 40 ops in an hour. so 40 ops per controller makes sense.

Let's say another facility has two positions, every arrival talks to both controllers. They have 40 ops in an hour as well. Your math says they each worked 20 ops, but really they both worked all 40.

Now in real life, some of these facilities an arrival passes through 5-10 sectors before it lands or leaves the facility. Let's say 10 sectors for easy math. 200 ops an hour. Your math says the guy at the facility with 40 ops is TWICE as busy. But really those guys each worked 200 ops an hour meaning they were FIVE TIMES as busy.

Obviously this doesn't take complexity or anything into account, but ops/controller could not possibly be any more of a useless metric

 

[32andBelow]

Right so some getting their balls kicked and others have it quite easier and get paid the same. I’ve seen it many times on here center or large Tracon people talking shit about low level places like they don’t work busy traffic and are undeserving to make more money. I tell ya what working more planes that are all inside of five miles of airspace vs working all planes 5 miles apart if very different. One mistake in the terminal environment can create a whole hell of a lot more problems and we don’t even have all the fancy shit Z’s have. Oh you’re going to have a conflict here…do something about it blah blah blah.

idk why you think center controllers don’t have to see traffic. Plenty bad can happen when planes are closing at 15 miles a minute

 

[GroundClutter]

Right so some getting their balls kicked and others have it quite easier and get paid the same. I’ve seen it many times on here center or large Tracon people talking shit about low level places like they don’t work busy traffic and are undeserving to make more money. I tell ya what working more planes that are all inside of five miles of airspace vs working all planes 5 miles apart if very different. One mistake in the terminal environment can create a whole hell of a lot more problems and we don’t even have all the fancy shit Z’s have. Oh you’re going to have a conflict here…do something about it blah blah blah.

You ever just get licked by a deer sometimes?

Salty AF

 

[ncssailor]

You ever just get licked by a deer sometimes?

Salty AF

You in a slow area lol

 

[Flashy Vectors]

It’s just basic math, and there are areas busier than other in the same building but they all getting paid the same. Doesn’t seem fair for the the sectors getting their asses kicked.

Your issue is with poor airspace design not someone in another area scamming. Why harm your fellow controllers by advocating for reducing their pay for something out of their control?

 

[Soul_Controller]

idk why you think center controllers don’t have to see traffic. Plenty bad can happen when planes are closing at 15 miles a minute

When the conflict thing is yellow you turn somebody right? Check me out

 

[atc12bsthrowaway]

I know you guys are talking ARTCC and Approach facilities but I just did the math on last years numbers for some of the towers in the SoCal area where I work. Sorry if any are slightly off but this is off reliable count numbers.

SAN- 10,870 per CPC
LAX - 12,067 per CPC
MYF- 17,443 per CPC
VNY- 17,602 per CPC
CNO - 25,590 per CPC <——- Where I work lol..

I get paid 12 pay to switch 5 vfrs at once to CNO and literally never hear them complain. They should be first up for a raise imo.

 

[32andBelow]

When the conflict thing is yellow you turn somebody right? Check me out

It doesn’t sequence for you. Approach has extra rules to make it even easier.

 

[KP-ATC]

It doesn’t sequence for you. Approach has extra rules to make it even easier.

I remember having to run CENRAP with busy traffic. That sucked. We had to get creative.

 

[EightTwoSierra]

I get paid 12 pay to switch 5 vfrs at once to CNO and literally never hear them complain. They should be first up for a raise imo.

Not sure if you are joking or not but we usually don’t have time to complain haha! We appreciate you guys accepting any BS we throw your way at times.

 

[atc12bsthrowaway]

Not sure if you are joking or not but we usually don’t have time to complain haha! We appreciate you guys accepting any BS we throw your way at times. tower in our airspace.

No you guys are awesome, it’s not a joke at all.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

I know you guys are talking ARTCC and Approach facilities but I just did the math on last years numbers for some of the towers in the SoCal area where I work. Sorry if any are slightly off but this is off reliable count numbers.

SAN- 10,870 per CPC
LAX - 12,067 per CPC
MYF- 17,443 per CPC
VNY- 17,602 per CPC
CNO - 25,590 per CPC <——- Where I work lol..

Did you get these numbers from the site through Cedar?

 

[EightTwoSierra]

Did you get these numbers from the site through Cedar?

Count ops

 

[EightTwoSierra]

No you guys are awesome, it’s not a joke at all.

I appreciate that, I showed all the CPCs here your comment as well and they all said thank you. We just try to quietly get the job done. Gets a bit hectic at times!

 

[ChuckNovember]

Some simple math and each controller at some of those facilities are doing 40 ops per day….they are making good money for that and have all the fancy equipment.

When I read comments like this I start to understand why boots thinks we're overpaid.