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Very useful post
Atcbrownie
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My point is that the OP believes that because these suicides have NOT been addressed from either NATCA national or FAA that mental health issues are being ignored. I am saying that I have never heard of any ATC suicides in 16 years of ATC, therefore the OP may have a point.
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PushingTin
Guest
Case in point. I have ppl texting me about them happening left and right, yet the only thing I ever hear about is bullshit! For instance, apparently ZLA has a room for new moms? Deck chairs on the titantic!!!!
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There was one from PHX tower 12 years ago or so that was supposedly from hazing... I heard something about it and the person that was doing the hazing suing other controllers for defamation of character if anyone bought it up.
Then the young lady at Deer Valley back in 2015. I know some of the details on that one.
Then two most recent ones at Tulsa and COS. Wasn't one of them a facrep or was that another one that I'm forgetting?
Honestly I'm kinda getting sick of the union bullshit again. Most recently a FB post about a telcon or webinar about OSHA and the condition of our building. The FB post was an hour prior to said event. How are we supposed to participate with an hour notice?
The union just wants people that will "fall in line". You will not be supported or move up in the union if you are perceived as rocking the boat or causing waves no matter how egregious the issue is you are standing up against.
Case in point I've seen a manager have a grievance filed against them from violation of the contract for the same issue against 6 or 7 controllers on different occasions and each time it was won in PAR. Said manager was told each time to follow the contract and they just kept doing the same shit. Eventually the union said stop filling grievances because there was nothing more we could do.
Then the young lady at Deer Valley back in 2015. I know some of the details on that one.
Then two most recent ones at Tulsa and COS. Wasn't one of them a facrep or was that another one that I'm forgetting?
Honestly I'm kinda getting sick of the union bullshit again. Most recently a FB post about a telcon or webinar about OSHA and the condition of our building. The FB post was an hour prior to said event. How are we supposed to participate with an hour notice?
The union just wants people that will "fall in line". You will not be supported or move up in the union if you are perceived as rocking the boat or causing waves no matter how egregious the issue is you are standing up against.
Case in point I've seen a manager have a grievance filed against them from violation of the contract for the same issue against 6 or 7 controllers on different occasions and each time it was won in PAR. Said manager was told each time to follow the contract and they just kept doing the same shit. Eventually the union said stop filling grievances because there was nothing more we could do.
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AB19
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Tulsa was a facrep, NATCA is a frat and anything that rocks the boat won't be addressed. For being brothers and sisters they kinda drop the ball hard on this.
Damn...all I want is an actual breakroom that fits more than 1 person...
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Natca doesnt care about its dues paying members anymore. Leadership has continually sold us out.
jdatc
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As this thread derails..... I’m not a cool Aid drinker, and I’ve gone toe to toe with different Union people on many occasions, but some of you are legit tin foil hat people when it comes to the union.
And what, you twn, you’ve been in how long? At least give it 5 years and be a CPC before you get bitter. I’d respect you more if you were stuck in butthole Texas at a level 5 for 10 years lamenting you couldn’t get your dream facility versus a entitled new person. Shit, maybe I am becoming an ATC Boomer.
I’ve been in only 17ish years, and I haven’t agreed with every action of my local (3 different regions) or my national at times, but I realize that the end justifies the means And overall I am better of over the course of my career For being in.
Oh, and I Never sucked any dick to get a traffic dodging article 114 gig. All I did was move planes and pay dues And when the mood struck me, burn a bridge.
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I guess "sucking a dick" could be burning a bridge depending on how bad you were at it....
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PushingTin
Guest
As the author, I believe this thread is going nicely. I think that people legit are like... wait what... peeps are commiting suicide at facilities all over the country!? But...but...I thought this was the greatest job in the world??? Yes, people are killing themselves and its disturbing. I don't have all the answers but I think a job that pretends 10,000+ controllers are all of perfect mind is a recipe for disaster. You can go lactate in a room with cacti art and soft soothing colors at ZLA though.
Most of the higher up heavy hitters do have great DSLs now that I think of it....
GulfBravoPapa
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What exactly is it you want Natca to do about this? Natca cannot change the medical requirements of this job. They cannot force the FAA or the DOT or the ATO or whoever is at the top of the food chain to allow mental health screening and depression medication. I think you're fighting an uphill battle and the reason it seems like there are more issues now than say ten years ago is because of social media and how interconnected everyone is. People on the coasts never knew what was happening in Colorado before, now they do. It's not more prevalent, just more publicized.
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Alright I'll try and spell it out for you. Since you clearly don't understand how all this works.
We give NATCA money, they then advocate for us on issues that mean something to us. If we can have and contribute to a PAC to put people into office that support our position / beliefs / cause, then surely we can shine light on mental illness in our career field. NATCA National picks and chooses what issues to fight.
Controllers are like a bunch of high schoolers that think the universe revolves around them and constantly talk shit / gossip about others. I'm sure that suicides were talked about between controllers "back in the day" at NATCA events or over E-mail, AIM maybe mIRC.
GulfBravoPapa
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You didn't really answer my question... But let me take a stab at it. Perhaps Natca should team up with ALPA and AOPA and use their PAC money to try and elect officials will to find mental health research and attempt to make changes to the medical requirements of the aviation industry as a whole (because they aren't going to change for controllers and not pilots).
But where is the line drawn? Depression is okay, but what about bipolar? Multiple personality disorder? Schizophrenia? What exactly does the MMPI test for? Also... Say you receive treatment whether therapy or medication what is the downtime? A week? A month? Until you can demonstrate stability? Who determines what is stability? I'm sure much of this has already been researched and tested but I'm not familiar with it... Maybe others here are?
Mike Kilo
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Things to think about:
Are you willing to take a 20% pay cut because you are only working 32 hours now?
Are you willing to subject yourself to bi annual mental health examinations, which will wildly vary by service area, district etc?
Are you willing to have a co worker mention you seem a little off or are having problems at home and lose your medical for 3 months pending therapy?
Are you willing to work even shorter staffed because it will be that much more difficult to hire and retain employees with rigid mental health screenings?
Be careful what you wish for. NATCA has to pick their battles and this one fill be a very difficult uphill battle with some possible heavy downsides.
Are you willing to take a 20% pay cut because you are only working 32 hours now?
Are you willing to subject yourself to bi annual mental health examinations, which will wildly vary by service area, district etc?
Are you willing to have a co worker mention you seem a little off or are having problems at home and lose your medical for 3 months pending therapy?
Are you willing to work even shorter staffed because it will be that much more difficult to hire and retain employees with rigid mental health screenings?
Be careful what you wish for. NATCA has to pick their battles and this one fill be a very difficult uphill battle with some possible heavy downsides.
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I wasn't directly advocating for individual mental evaluations. Even right now for reasonable suspicion for narcotics there is a process that has to be followed.
40+ hours a week adds up and is a big portion of your life to be spending at work and if those working conditions are subpar people get depressed and feel stagnant.
What is unique to our career field is for the most part the FAA is the only real choice when it comes to our career. If you're not happy with where you're at you can't just quit and go find another job.
NATCA needs to address the tons of unhappy controllers that are out there working under horrible conditions / mgmt teams.
I am happy. I've gotten all my moves. I've made my money and I'm currently where I want to be maxed out. There is little for me to be unhappy about but that doesn't mean that I can forget about the others that aren't happy.
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Again, most can quit if they are unhappy with no progressing within their company or if they are unhappy with mgmt... We can what, go work contract at a third of our current pay with no retirement? Maybe grab a job with a railroad?
I believe it is known that (as the union likes to say) the FAA is the only game in town and we just have to eat crow.
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