Serious ARTCC Consolidations

[32andBelow]

Problem is the FAA had facilities update their contingency plans, so they did the most half assed version of it imagineable with no plan or training.

Now instead of there being no idea what to do, they have these dumbass contingency plans that say centers will just take over the next sector into their neighbor if they go down. There’s no plan beyond that, no idea of even semi training beyond that, just Hey Denver you’re gonna take the next sector into ZMP it’ll be fine. Contingency plan done!

Just bring up the MIAs and frequencies map lmao. What could go wrong.

 

[Redacted]

You think? From my perhaps narrow perspective there seemed to be no major hiccups. I think most facilities had fuck all before the fire incident.

I remember vividly having to miss the majority of ZID because they had to shut down for a cleaning and no one could assume their airspace.

 

[Raise when?]

I remember vividly having to miss the majority of ZID because they had to shut down for a cleaning and no one could assume their airspace.

Yeah I vaguely recall now too, didn’t it happen more than once though?

 

[32andBelow]

Yeah I vaguely recall now too, didn’t it happen more than once though?

It happened all over. Centers were taking over TRACONS too.

 

[Redacted]

It happened all over. Centers were taking over TRACONS too.

It was all over, that’s just one I remembered having receipts for.

 

[Bandit117]

I remember vividly having to miss the majority of ZID because they had to shut down for a cleaning and no one could assume their airspace.

Been waiting to repost this one.

 

[Spoony90]

Yes I agree, the training is nonexistent. My area has had to take over several approach controls that went ATC zero in the past couple years and haven’t even had a refresher training or anything. Some of the airspace doesn’t even underly ours so we’re totally scrambling with freq’s and who to call even.

But we made it work without a disaster so in the FAA’s mind everything is Fine.

ZFW straight up refused to take over our airspace during Covid. We clowned them so hard. Our facility lost a lot of respect for them after that

 

[32andBelow]

ZFW straight up refused to take over our airspace during Covid. We clowned them so hard. Our facility lost a lot of respect for them after that

They’d still give you a deal for having it in a sector you weren’t trained in

 

[CaptainObvious]

ZFW straight up refused to take over our airspace during Covid. We clowned them so hard. Our facility lost a lot of respect for them after that

Why should they take it.

 

[wrench978]

Just bring up the MIAs and frequencies map lmao. What could go wrong.

whats a frequency map?? Is that the flash cards the trainees leave in the break room?

 

[32andBelow]

whats a frequency map?? Is that the flash cards the trainees leave in the break room?

It’s for when there’s a zillion frequencies

 

[DankVectorz]

The FAA just doesn't have a brain to realize that's the answer for a lot of these hard to staff facilities that no one wants to be at.

They need a court order for every local hiring bid I believe. I know they needed it for the N90 local one.

It worked so well when they consolidated all the fss to a couple places. There’s actually a lot of value having the local and em frequent operators be able to talk to and meet with the local atc and work out things that come up.

FSS was privatized with Lockmart saying they would keep everything the same, then promptly consolidated and downsized it. The downsizing was far more damaging than the consolidating.

 

[32andBelow]

They need a court order for every local hiring bid I believe. I know they needed it for the N90 local one.

FSS was privatized with Lockmart saying they would keep everything the same, then promptly consolidated and downsized it. The downsizing was far more damaging than the consolidating.

I think they could have a Guam bid and do local recruiting but they just have to have the application open nationwide. The n90 bid was weird that you already had to live there. Like if you wanted to move there they wouldn’t take you.

 

[blarg]

I think the local hiring hoops they have to jump through have to do with something like... if it isn't a nationwide hiring announcement, it's theoretically discrimination against people who don't live in the area, etc... which sort of makes sense, but is also stupid.

 

[DankVectorz]

I think the local hiring hoops they have to jump through have to do with something like... if it isn't a nationwide hiring announcement, it's theoretically discrimination against people who don't live in the area, etc... which sort of makes sense, but is also stupid.

Another caveat of it was that it’s theoretically an easier way to get hired since less competition and that you could always just wash/withdraw and go to the nest if you wanted to go somewhere else

 

[32andBelow]

Another caveat of it was that it’s theoretically an easier way to get hired since less competition and that you could always just wash/withdraw and go to the nest if you wanted to go somewhere else

With local hiring you can change the nest to state you’ll stay in the same geographical location. Which is good anyways if you want to hire people that want to stay somewhere

 

[theflyingpig]

maybe they can consolidate ZNY and move it to philly too 😂

 

[Mike Kilo]

An interesting read from 2012.

https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/Facilities%20Consolidation%20Report%5E7-17-12.pdf

 

[SquawkHijack]

maybe you can do stuff like have one center in Texas or California. But like having a single target or point of failure seems like a really bad idea

Exactly, pretty sure the Molotov in the equipment room at ZAU put the nail in the coffin for any Z consolidation and showed just how vulnerable even the tightest security at ATC facilities is.

Build a supercenter in Bumfuck Iowa consolidating every Z. Build an entire town around it with affordable housing for controllers and like 27 bars. 1 cop for the whole town. Watch the hilarity ensue.

You sold me. DSM is already throwing around an idea for “Hawkeye TRACON” once they take ALO’s airspace.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

This sounds scary and I have no doubt the agency would love to move towards consolidation of all facilities one day. But you also have to keep in mind how absolutely abysmal the FAA is at executing any type of change. All of our technology is consistently 30+ years behind where it should be. On the construction side, it took them 2 years just to re-pave the parking lot at my Z a few years back.

Even if the agency decided today that we are definitely consolidating into one or more “super centers” it would take 20-30 years for it to actually come to fruition. Even new hires getting TOLs today would likely never have to worry about it. We’ll be replaced with AI before the FAA would be able to implement a major system changing project like this. Never going to be a factor.

His very first comment was “good question even though none of our centers are over 60 years old yet”

They have no clue

That’s an agency problem. Not mine.

Until shit like this happens and your forced to move