Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

Smitty said:

N90 will be upgraded to the only level 13 in the NAS once JFK gets upgraded to a 12 which it deserves

GulfBravoPapa said:

Centers are waiting for abacus

Centers are waiting on Abacus, Terminal is waiting on Abacus. I thought they were rolling it out at Atlanta Center. What happened to that? It’s gonna be 10 more years knowing the FAA.

Smitty said:

Why did NATCA refuse to renegotiate the failing complexity formula under the "most union friendly administration in history"? The airlines are turning down 30% pay raises, and we have hundreds of controllers getting de facto pay cuts? Wow!

They're too busy bitching paying Rinldi/Gilbert $250k/yr to do nothing, and elevating them to that of a diety.

Collaborate me harder, daddy.

nab said:

Centers are waiting on Abacus, Terminal is waiting on Abacus. I thought they were rolling it out at Atlanta Center. What happened to that? It’s gonna be 10 more years knowing the FAA.

It is funny, I remember 18 months ago a regional Fac Rep call all about celebrating and introducing the system which was about to replace CRU-ART that was in development for years and had all these awesome features like if you are about to sign in after 8:59 form your last shift not 9:00 it gives you a warning (pretty sure I’ve seen ART do that too).

It’s been 18 months later and not one additional word about it, much less implementation lol.

CRU-ART definitely has that warning. The big thing I've heard about the new sign-in system is that it signs you out automatically at the end of your shift. But the sup is supposed to sign you out anyway, unless you're taking leave...

There's like 2 centers that need updated traffic counts for upgrades. But there's probably 5 or 6 that would get downgrades at least

Mr. Miner said:

I'm betting at almost every lvl 9, pay is hardly worth it living in the area

FWIW, I think most would say they’re ok here at SDF on level 9 pay. Subjective, but Louisville’s cost of living isn’t too bad.

Mike Echo said:

FWIW, I think most would say they’re ok here at SDF on level 9 pay. Subjective, but Louisville’s cost of living isn’t too bad.

Huh. Knew that they did UPS cargo, but didn't realize they were a 9.

Randomly looking at the map, CVG, St. Louis Tracon, and Jax Tower probably aren't too bad for COL

Mr. Miner said:

I'm betting at almost every lvl 9, pay is hardly worth it living in the area

PBI is getting there…

FightingIrish2012 said:

It is funny, I remember 18 months ago a regional Fac Rep call all about celebrating and introducing the system which was about to replace CRU-ART that was in development for years and had all these awesome features like if you are about to sign in after 8:59 form your last shift not 9:00 it gives you a warning (pretty sure I’ve seen ART do that too).

It’s been 18 months later and not one additional word about it, much less implementation lol.

We are testing ATOMS at RIC and ROA now. Expected implementation…. TBD

It’s 2023 and we still don’t have a system that sends you a text message when your requests are denied or approved. Instead you’re required to log into some shitty website that is down or loads like it’s on dial up most of the time.

Mr. Miner said:

I'm betting at almost every lvl 9, pay is hardly worth it living in the area

Plus you have the stability of being able to stay at that level 9 for your whole career, and watch your children grow up without the nuisance of having to move. Thank NCEPT now for that, because they care and have your needs in mind. They need that positive reinforcement to continue to keep all 9’s happy. Don’t worry about your high 3, the negotiating team will ensure you have excellent pay raises.

RalphBeast said:

South ground at LAX is deserving of lvl 12 pay alone. Also doesn't factor into account complexity.

Wonder if historical training time and success rates should be considered at some point. Denver and DFW towers have very high success rates and low training time, compared to LAX or ORD which are far lower and train twice as longer.

That sucks you have to work one of the hardest positions in the NAS but only get level 11 pay

ncssailor said:

The ERR lists are going to get shorter to a lot of these places. MSP used to be a country club well staffed, level 9 pay is hardly worth it for the cost of living in the twin cities. Even with high locality pay in some of these places it’s not worth it after many years of the regular raises adding up.
More now mid level places not many people want to go to unless it’s home for them.

Not that I support downgrades, but going off of 123atc lvl 9 pay at a place like MSP is $125->$170k/yr before any OT, nights, holidays? That's still pretty damn good in the Twin Cities. With a short training time, high success rate, and a huge area to draw "locals" from, I highly doubt MSP will have any staffing troubles for the foreseeable future.

But yeah, ZMP seems like a far better gig anyways. For whatever reason Zs and mega tracons have escaped downgrades and I expect that trend to continue. It's easy to ding random 20-30CPC towers but I think downgrading a mega radar facility is going to cause far more blowback.

RalphBeast said:

Not that I support downgrades, but going off of 123atc lvl 9 pay at a place like MSP is $125->$170k/yr before any OT, nights, holidays? That's still pretty damn good in the Twin Cities. With a short training time, high success rate, and a huge area to draw "locals" from, I highly doubt MSP will have any staffing troubles for the foreseeable future.

But yeah, ZMP seems like a far better gig anyways. For whatever reason Zs and mega tracons have escaped downgrades and I expect that trend to continue. It's easy to ding random 20-30CPC towers but I think downgrading a mega radar facility is going to cause far more blowback.

I used to live there, 125k is not pretty dang good. It's ok. But when you have a family, you ain't taking any vacations.

I’d go to MSP tomorrow and stay til I retired.

XRadar said:

Plus you have the stability of being able to stay at that level 9 for your whole career, and watch your children grow up without the nuisance of having to move. Thank NCEPT now for that, because they care and have your needs in mind. They need that positive reinforcement to continue to keep all 9’s happy. Don’t worry about your high 3, the negotiating team will ensure you have excellent pay raises.

The truth in this statement hurts my soul. Come to a level 9 where your career goes to die unless you figure out a way to escape.

Whats the website to check facility traffic count?

RA said:

Whats the website to check facility traffic count?

aap.faa.gov, tcip at bottom right from faa computer.

RA said:

Whats the website to check facility traffic count?

ATADS if you’re not at work