Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

[CaptainObvious]

I heard ZBW was on the cusp as well and that they finished behind one of the lvl 10 ARTCC's in traffic count. I have not seen numbers or anything to justify it.



I think our case is gonna set the precedent for how ARTCC traffic is counted for everybody else.

ATADS has ARTCC count data but apparently it can’t be verified for some reason.

ZBW did less than several 10s

 

[ABACUS]

ATADS has ARTCC count data but apparently it can’t be verified for some reason.

ZBW did less than several 10s

View attachment 2684

Do u have a list of the 11s to compare to?

 

[CaptainObvious]

Do u have a list of the 11s to compare to?

I included Denver because it should be an 11

 

[Homsar]

How do upgrades work with someone transferring during/after the 3 month period, but before the upgrade takes effect? We had someone at our facility transfer out in the middle of month 2 of our 3 month “above breakpoint,” and a few others leaving soon, but they’ll all leave before our facility gets looked at by the audit team. If the team accepts the audit and upgrades the facility as of the 2nd month traffic was over, per the contract, will all controllers at the facility during that time receive the pay raise, even if they aren’t there anymore?

 

[ATC_av8er]

How do upgrades work with someone transferring during/after the 3 month period, but before the upgrade takes effect? We had someone at our facility transfer out in the middle of month 2 of our 3 month “above breakpoint,” and a few others leaving soon, but they’ll all leave before our facility gets looked at by the audit team. If the team accepts the audit and upgrades the facility as of the 2nd month traffic was over, per the contract, will all controllers at the facility during that time receive the pay raise, even if they aren’t there anymore?

As someone with first-hand experience with this, yes. If the NVT decides to upgrade your facility, as long as you are there for even a small portion of the time frame, you will get backpay. My previous facility was upgraded effective October 2018, I transferred out March 2019 and received the backpay.

 

[caprisun]

What happens if a level 4 towers traffic slows below the required levels? Is it common for these small facilities to close or go contract?What happens to the CPCs in these situations?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

What happens if a level 4 towers traffic slows below the required levels? Is it common for these small facilities to close or go contract?What happens to the CPCs in these situations?

There are no “required levels”, a 4 takes you all the way down to traffic count zero it does not have a bottom tier. Hopefully they all get converted into video towers operated out of one central location and the existing controllers get to transfer anywhere that has a vacancy.

 

[Shikaka]

Awww a level 12 consolidated super tower composed of all the 4s.

 

[clr2lnd]

Anybody know when the next national validation team meeting is? I heard September. Anything more specific?

 

[CK]

Anybody know when the next national validation team meeting is? I heard September. Anything more specific?

We were told our telecon for the meeting is on the 11th.

 

[caprisun]

There are no “required levels”, a 4 takes you all the way down to traffic count zero it does not have a bottom tier. Hopefully they all get converted into video towers operated out of one central location and the existing controllers get to transfer anywhere that has a vacancy.

Thanks for the info. Is it common to close these smaller satellite airports? Thinking specifically places like PNE, AGC, RDG etc.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Thanks for the info. Is it common to close these smaller satellite airports? Thinking specifically places like PNE, AGC, RDG etc.

It’s not been done in a long time but for ten years there were only about 4 level 4 facilities. Now there will be 15-20 in the next year or two. So they might make a move to something new now that they have a batch to work with.

 

[caprisun]

It’s not been done in a long time but for ten years there were only about 4 level 4 facilities. Now there will be 15-20 in the next year or two. So they might make a move to something new now that they have a batch to work with.

I see. In this type of scenario would these CPCs have any preferential hiring in other close by facilities? For instance if you were in PNE and it happened to close, would you be able to move over to ACY, PHL, ILG etc? Possibly looking to move into a smaller facility, but just trying to get a idea of how that would play out IF it were happen.

 

[CK]

I see. In this type of scenario would these CPCs have any preferential hiring in other close by facilities? For instance if you were in PNE and it happened to close, would you be able to move over to ACY, PHL, ILG etc? Possibly looking to move into a smaller facility, but just trying to get a idea of how that would play out IF it were happen.

Pretty sure that's covered in the CBA. But yes, if there is a spot open, IE not 100% staffed, you get pick of the litter if your facility were to close. The best person to ask will be the Santa Monica FacRep as they're nearing their end. I'm sure they've got all the answers by now.

 

[caprisun]

Pretty sure that's covered in the CBA. But yes, if there is a spot open, IE not 100% staffed, you get pick of the litter if your facility were to close. The best person to ask will be the Santa Monica FacRep as they're nearing there end. I'm sure they've got all the answers by now.

Thanks CK. I looked quickly through the CBA before posting and didn’t see anything specific to this but I’ll take another look. Sad to hear about Santa Monica, hope everyone can find a place to land close to home.

 

[PushingTin]

I heard JFK has been below level 11 traffic for over 80 months.... yet no downgrade. Gasp! Are all facilities treated equal? #BestJobintheWorld #itUsedtoBeBusy #Fair&Equitable

 

[Shikaka]

That's like the "one roof one pay" part #fairNequitable

 

[Anthony Perez]

First time being involved in a potential upgrade. Our facility was over the threshold for an upgrade for 5 consecutive months(April-August). At the end of August and beginning of September we had the threat of a hurricane (that caused majority of local based aircraft to evacuate for about a week) and a tropical storm (that stopped all local flying for about another week) that caused our CI to dip back below the threshold for September. The traffic count for those 2 months were an anomaly as it was less than normal by a good amount. Is what took place because of the storms going to be held against us? The traffic here is back to normal.

 

[axman]

First time being involved in a potential upgrade. Our facility was over the threshold for an upgrade for 5 consecutive months(April-August). At the end of August and beginning of September we had the threat of a hurricane (that caused majority of local based aircraft to evacuate for about a week) and a tropical storm (that stopped all local flying for about another week) that caused our CI to dip back below the threshold for September. The traffic count for those 2 months were an anomaly as it was less than normal by a good amount. Is what took place because of the storms going to be held against us? The traffic here is back to normal.

My understanding is they do take that into account.

 

[CK]

AAP.faa.gov shows the new fac upgrades. AFW, LBB and one other I think.