FAIR Act 2023, (Hatch Act warning)

[doodii]

When people say they made xx amount, it’s not net it’s gross.

Are you one of those taxes is theft people?


Where did you get the 21k figure? There are not that many FAA controllers

He talked about the congressional cap, contractors wouldn’t be relevant for the purposes of this discussion.

I just asked a simple question. Christ, you're a miserable human being.

 

[Ad1234]

There's 8164 / 10745 (76%) CPC at 8+ which are guaranteed to be 100k+, so that's the minimum. D3s at 8+, and D2s at 11+ are also there, if not very close (~2k total trainees here). Add CPC-ITs, 6s/7s cpc (1655/15% total CPC) with some time in.

1640/10745 (15%) of CPCs at lvl 4-6. 921/10745 (~8.6%) at lvl 7.

~85% looks reasonable

Thanks for the edit!!


There is no way anywhere near this 85 percent Would find comparable compensation outside the agency. they would have had to attend college or gain another skill which I’m assuming would pay way less during the certification period with worse working conditions and then have comparable cons to the profession we do Schedule, more hours, poor working conditions etc

 

[AB19]

posting google like they aren’t looking for the best of the best

 

[32andBelow]

Thanks for the edit!!


There is no way anywhere near this 85 percent Would find comparable compensation outside the agency. they would have had to attend college or gain another skill which I’m assuming would pay way less during the certification period with worse working conditions and then have comparable cons to the profession we do Schedule, more hours, poor working conditions etc

So? We have a good skill. Compare it to other atcs around the world. That’s the skill we have.

 

[Ad1234]

So? We have a good skill. Compare it to other atcs around the world. That’s the skill we have.

So people saying we are under paid when you nearly every single one of us makes over 100k, and that doesn’t include ot and differentials is absolutely stupid. Especially when many of the people would not find a comparable salary outside of the agency had they never started. It’s a hard sell for the public or politicians to see that stat and say yeah they need more because they have 25k+ people apply every bud that comes out.

You can’t compare to air traffic around the world. Pay, tax, benefits, conditions culture are completely different in every example you’ll find. And the differences are going to entice and turn off an equal number of people. So it’s moot to compare.

 

[32andBelow]

So people saying we are under paid when you nearly every single one of us makes over 100k, and that doesn’t include ot and differentials is absolutely stupid. Especially when many of the people would not find a comparable salary outside of the agency had they never started. It’s a hard sell for the public or politicians to see that stat and say yeah they need more because they have 25k+ people apply every bud that comes out.

You can’t compare to air traffic around the world. Pay, tax, benefits, conditions culture are completely different in every example you’ll find. And the differences are going to entice and turn off an equal number of people. So it’s moot to compare.

That’s The problem when you require no degree or anything to get hired. Then you have a workforce where you can just say like oh you can’t get any other job so take it or leave it. We should be compared to other skilled professions. Not people without degrees.

 

[Ad1234]

That’s The problem when you require no degree or anything to get hired. Then you have a workforce where you can just say like oh you can’t get any other job so take it or leave it. We should be compared to other skilled professions. Not people without degrees.

Now you want to implement degrees or some other hurdle to a struggling workforce and make staffing worse?

What skilled profession should we be compared to?

Most others skill jobs have way worse working conditions than us. We work 4 hours a day, many of us in kushy accommodations comparably to those other jobs, and benefits far exceed what you might find elsewhere.

 

[32andBelow]

Now you want to implement degrees or some other hurdle to a struggling workforce and make staffing worse?

What skilled profession should we be compared to?

Most others skill jobs have way worse working conditions than us. We work 4 hours a day, many of us in kushy accommodations comparably to those other jobs, and benefits far exceed what you might find elsewhere.

We work 4 hours a day but we are a struggling workforce? Idk we are constantly on the lists for the hardest jobs so how bout those jobs. It’s all about public perception anyways. The public perceives our job as difficult and I don’t think they’d think anything of it if we got paid the same as a pilot

 

[Ad1234]

We work 4 hours a day but we are a struggling workforce? Idk we are constantly on the lists for the hardest jobs so how bout those jobs. It’s all about public perception anyways. The public perceives our job as difficult and I don’t think they’d think anything of it if we got paid the same as a pilot

Stressful not hardest. Big difference. The work itself isn’t physically demanding, mentally sure, which looks different to an outsider and way more appealing. Also we can’t come to work drunk like a plumber and still put in a toilet. We have to show up and be ready to go and our hours suck.

You’re right, I should have said struggling to keep staffed, and it’s not because we have a lack of people applying. We, including management shoots ourself with bullshit from within to make it worse.

 

[32andBelow]

Stressful not hardest. Big difference. The work itself isn’t physically demanding, mentally sure, which looks different to an outsider and way more appealing. Also we can’t come to work drunk like a plumber and still put in a toilet. We have to show up and be ready to go and our hours suck.

You’re right, I should have said struggling to keep staffed, and it’s not because we have a lack of people applying. We, including management shoots ourself with bullshit from within to make it worse.

So we should get paid for that stress wether it’s real or not. But you’re right the moneys not bad. It’s the schedule where We have a lot of room. Working 40 hours like an office worker makes no sense

 

[Redacted]

Fortunately for us, we only have to convince the public that government workers are underpaid in general, not ourselves. If we can convince them that our federal firefighters and IT workers are underpaid compared to their city or private counterparts, we’ll inherit the same raise anyway.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Not to bash any particular union. But I guarantee when this comes through it'll be celebrated as a huge success. I just want it marked here that we did nothing for trainees and said there is no way they'd ever get a raise or backpay be thankful you have a job. This would be a big one for them.

I get a feeling this is going to be a huge win email next year

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Not to bash any particular union. But I guarantee when this comes through it'll be celebrated as a huge success. I just want it marked here that we did nothing for trainees and said there is no way they'd ever get a raise or backpay be thankful you have a job. This would be a big one for them.

I get a feeling this is going to be a huge win email next year

It won’t be a win because it will never happen but yes, if it did NATCA would take credit lol. They just sent a email celebrating backpay raises for a contact tower, and celebrated a new contract tower becoming NATCA.

I really think the focus on recruiting new contract towers is so NATCA can slowly add member and claim zero net losses balancing out the true NATCA members (FAA controllers). They never gave a shit about contract towers prior to the last two years.

 

[GulfCharlie]

It won’t be a win because it will never happen but yes, if it did NATCA would take credit lol. They just sent a email celebrating backpay raises for a contact tower, and celebrated a new contract tower becoming NATCA.

I really think the focus on recruiting new contract towers is so NATCA can slowly add member and claim zero net losses balancing out the true NATCA members (FAA controllers). They never gave a shit about contract towers prior to the last two years.

I felt that last paragraph. Fwiw, I’d like it to happen and nothing can happen unless people are aware and spread the word to their Representatives/ Senators. Have to at least try right?

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

It won’t be a win because it will never happen but yes, if it did NATCA would take credit lol. They just sent a email celebrating backpay raises for a contact tower, and celebrated a new contract tower becoming NATCA.

I really think the focus on recruiting new contract towers is so NATCA can slowly add member and claim zero net losses balancing out the true NATCA members (FAA controllers). They never gave a shit about contract towers prior to the last two years.

They still don’t give a shit about us if we’re being honest. We’re told to sit down and shut up and to be thankful for what we do have. They chalk the backpay up as a big win when the reality is it was simply “what we were owed.” The company failed to pay the wage increase BECAUSE of the union’s ineptitude. We didn’t “extend our contract soon enough” (because we only had how many years WFH that’s now the status quo to hop on zoom calls and iron out a new contract). My understanding is the company didn’t feel bound by the contract because it was never extended so they said to fuck with you all, no pay raises! So the taking it to an arbitrator and getting backpay was NATCA fixing an issue they created then slapping themselves on the back for it. Worth noting, the decision came nearly a full year later. I think it was right before Christmas when the decision was released.

 

[Billybob]

I just want it marked here that we did nothing for trainees and said there is no way they'd ever get a raise or backpay be thankful you have a job.

This hurts especially worse after certifying. 15+ months of my career I could have expected triple my pay rate at the time, ill
Never see that money

 

[Move78]

They still don’t give a shit about us if we’re being honest. We’re told to sit down and shut up and to be thankful for what we do have. They chalk the backpay up as a big win when the reality is it was simply “what we were owed.” The company failed to pay the wage increase BECAUSE of the union’s ineptitude. We didn’t “extend our contract soon enough” (because we only had how many years WFH that’s now the status quo to hop on zoom calls and iron out a new contract). My understanding is the company didn’t feel bound by the contract because it was never extended so they said to fuck with you all, no pay raises! So the taking it to an arbitrator and getting backpay was NATCA fixing an issue they created then slapping themselves on the back for it. Worth noting, the decision came nearly a full year later. I think it was right before Christmas when the decision was released.

So you mean with no negotiated contract the egos in charge will chose no pay raises? Weirrrrd.

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

So you mean with no negotiated contract the egos in charge will chose no pay raises? Weirrrrd.

Oh… 1% to non-union facilities. 0% for union facilities. Now how tf does that work? Shows the company’s stance towards the union. But they’re all pieces of… well, they aren’t great.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I felt that last paragraph. Fwiw, I’d like it to happen and nothing can happen unless people are aware and spread the word to their Representatives/ Senators. Have to at least try right?

I think a lot of the issue is we aren't trying. I'd love for us all to write heartfelt letters to our senators that briefly explain how instead of time based gs raises we are subject to performance based. Then turn it into a request for some sort of a raise UPON CERTIFICATION to make up for the 3 or 4 we missed. Sadly I don't think people are motivated to do it. That said I could come up with a template and we could grassroots it for trainees to HAND WRITE and mail, the. Follow up with an email, to their local reps and transportation committee members. I could find an organizing website or do something on here if the big boss deems it worthy (mj?) It would be outside the union so people supporting it would have to make calls and write letters OFF OF GOVT TIME AND PROPERTY. Thoughts?

 

[32andBelow]

I think a lot of the issue is we aren't trying. I'd love for us all to write heartfelt letters to our senators that briefly explain how instead of time based gs raises we are subject to performance based. Then turn it into a request for some sort of a raise UPON CERTIFICATION to make up for the 3 or 4 we missed. Sadly I don't think people are motivated to do it. That said I could come up with a template and we could grassroots it for trainees to HAND WRITE and mail, the. Follow up with an email, to their local reps and transportation committee members. I could find an organizing website or do something on here if the big boss deems it worthy (mj?) It would be outside the union so people supporting it would have to make calls and write letters OFF OF GOVT TIME AND PROPERTY. Thoughts?

This is our unions job but they don’t do their job. The sole purpose of a union is to negotiate and then enforce a CBA