Recently a1’d during a training session and want to get clarification. I took position with vehicle 1 on rwy 4, they were doing paint work no restrictions. Aircraft inbound for rwy 10 (crossing rwy). Vehicle 1 told to hold short of rwy 10. I was A1 because there are no hold short lines on rwy 4 for rwy 10. 7110.65 3-7-4 note says airport management is responsible for hold lines/signs. Also says operator is responsible for positioning at line/sign or point. Does the lack of a hold short line mean they cannot hold short. If able provide a reference.
Hold short of intersecting rwy
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Maintainvfr
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I'd love to see that guy go check out a tower with a lot of snow removal
Electricfence
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How many hours do you have? Did you trainers recommend you? What does your union rep say?
240 hours over 16 months. 4 recomends, 2 from previous training team and 2 from new team. First cert ride was at end of hours and got the A1.
fac rep wants to bring light to lack of training program. 2 weeks now and still no word on anything.
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Electricfence
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It’s mandatory supes give a reference if they mark anything on the -25. What reference did they give?
How many other A1s do you have in your training?
Your facrep has already done you a disservice to let it get this far.
240 over 16 months is brutal. Short staffed? Other trainees? Why so few?
How many other A1s do you have in your training?
Your facrep has already done you a disservice to let it get this far.
240 over 16 months is brutal. Short staffed? Other trainees? Why so few?
Electricfence
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Any other A1s in your training? Just seems odd you get cut loose at max hours, for this one, With recommendations. What a waste of time to have a TRB.
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So, back to the original question, if the sup can't answer the question to your satisfaction, and given that he's full of shit he hasn't, you can go above him. Take your FACREP to the ATM and ask for an official interpretation/explanation. The region will provide guidance and it may circumvent the TRB. Added benefit of educating the sup.
Electricfence
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Yes all of this is what you sound be doing. but MJ does it not sound weird his training was stopped for This? Where has the facrep been all along?they first call it a training session in the first post, then says it was a cert ride. Huge difference. What’s the whole story? What’s their training been like? Has this supe done this bullshit before? Do they do it with others? What does the SOP say, if anything? Does 240 hours seem like a lot for FAY tower? let’s really help this person out so they aren’t pissing in the wind. If their training history is less than stellar and he got pulled at max hours, would you really be surprised? The manager being a dick over some crap can’t be the only part of this story. If it is, others have dropped the ball and this person isn’t being defended appropriately by our brothers and sisters and they feel the need to come here. That’s sad in my opinion.
FightingIrish2012
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The Facrep could be in on it, a lot of times at those small facilities they are old men who came up with the ATM and are coconspirators who think they are the twin kings of the facility. This was very common, luckily it’s less common now. And stop asking “how many A1’s have you had on previous sheets”? No one, two or five training sheets make a break a TRB, the NATCA guys who handle those are well trained, will examine the overall picture and trends, and get to the bottom of it.
Unless the facility keeps it all done in house, in that case everyone person on the TRB is a coconspirator and for better or worse your outcome is determined before the first interview even takes place.
Electricfence
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You’re right I asked the wrong question to make my point, no 5 training sheets make the TRB but if the supe is going to hang their hat on the A1 for terminating training, i believe it’s the easiest hole to to poke in their argument if the trainee has 5 A1s over a 16 month period and 240 hours. There is no pattern. But if the trainee has them over and over and over, big difference.
And I agree maybe the union rep is in on it. I wouldn’t be surprised by that at all. It’s very sad to me if that’s the case but he still got 4 reccomends of 11 cpcs, the 4 couldn’t convince the Facrep to be a better spokesperson for the trainee? This poor guy is probably screwed with no one but pointsixtyfive.com to teach them what to do. I’ve also seen some trained TRB people completely screw up so I don’t have much faith overall in them either.
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That's ridiculous. I work intersecting runways at my airport and we have vehicles/aircraft hold short of the active runway on the off-duty literally every day.
Electricfence
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I agree. Which makes me think going to a TRB on it seem ridiculous also. There has to be more background on this.
Okay, to clear a few things up.
originally said training session just to get question answered. It was a cert ride that was only given ( my opinion) be cause i was out of hours. Supe (again my opinion) had no intention of certifying me going into it. This supe has been a problem with everyone.
240 hours is combined local/ground max. They would not train/cert separately.
not getting a1'd routinely or creating any pattern, skills checks get hit alot for controller judgment as i dont control pattern traffic to his likeing. Is it safe yes, orderly yes, could work on expeditious sure...told that comes with time.
My last training team meeting my trainers flat out said that there is no way i certify under current supe.
First facility out of academy, just hoping this is not the faa as a whole
originally said training session just to get question answered. It was a cert ride that was only given ( my opinion) be cause i was out of hours. Supe (again my opinion) had no intention of certifying me going into it. This supe has been a problem with everyone.
240 hours is combined local/ground max. They would not train/cert separately.
not getting a1'd routinely or creating any pattern, skills checks get hit alot for controller judgment as i dont control pattern traffic to his likeing. Is it safe yes, orderly yes, could work on expeditious sure...told that comes with time.
My last training team meeting my trainers flat out said that there is no way i certify under current supe.
First facility out of academy, just hoping this is not the faa as a whole
Every facility is widely different, especially the lower level towers. If you're getting tagged for technique or personal opinion I would drag my facrep to the ATM and request official clarification on anything that isn't black and white, and accurate with the reference.
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