Recently a1’d during a training session and want to get clarification. I took position with vehicle 1 on rwy 4, they were doing paint work no restrictions. Aircraft inbound for rwy 10 (crossing rwy). Vehicle 1 told to hold short of rwy 10. I was A1 because there are no hold short lines on rwy 4 for rwy 10. 7110.65 3-7-4 note says airport management is responsible for hold lines/signs. Also says operator is responsible for positioning at line/sign or point. Does the lack of a hold short line mean they cannot hold short. If able provide a reference.
Hold short of intersecting rwy
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3-7-3 paragraph F of the .65. While an iffy practice when doing it with planes in my opinion. Airport vehicles are a completely different story, though he was cleared onto the runway you did restrict them from the crossing. If your trainer has an issue with it ask him to find where it contradicts this.
If you can find somewhere where it states hold short lines are required for something to hold short then I'd be surprised. The only reason hold short lines would be required is if you're LAHSO capable. Tell them you want the exact reference for your A1
Seriously though, I would tell them to show you exactly where it says you can't do it without lines. If they get whiney then up it to the supe if it's that important.
What airport is this crap going on at if you don't mind saying.
What airport is this crap going on at if you don't mind saying.
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Lolz, it is from supe during cert ride. Reference given 3-7-2. Comment ” lack of hold short lines allows vehicle to operate up to the edge of runway 10 within the saftey area of rwy 10. On a part of the landing surface.
Crap airport is fay...dont mind since this is sendimg me to a TRB.
170tovocus
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Hoo boy. Even if this was a valid argument, which I don't think it is, 3-1-5a explicitly says:
Vehicles, equipment, and personnel in direct communications with the control tower may be authorized to operate up to the edge of an active runway surface when necessary.
Out of curiosity, what was his solution for how you should have done it?
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Does this supe even know what the purpose of an RSA is?
Robert_Boucher
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Agree with the others your sup doesn't have a leg to stand on. Good luck with your TRB and definitely fight this BS reason for going to the TRB.
95% of my write ups are bogus stuff. Not calling birds for 15 minutes when they are no longer observed, not issuing distance remaining when initiating intersection departure, etc. Not worried about the trb just frustrated. The excuse they are using is that it is a movement area similar to a airplane not being allowed passed hold short lines being a runway incursion. The lack of hold short lines on the runway do not allow me to tell them to hold short of rwy 10. Told to tell them to hold short of taxiway that keeps them away from the runway (600 ft)
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FightingIrish2012
Legendary Member
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This stuff is not uncommon at the low level facilities, people have nothing to do but focus on garbage like this all their lives. Let me guess, your trainer was the oldest CPC and the sup has been there the longest on the FLMs and wants to be ATM? Hopefully the TRB sees though this if a lot of your issues are petty, they usually do.
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CaptainObvious
Legendary Member
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Yeah the RSA isn’t a landing surface.
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