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Are you both suggesting it's easier to become an AIRLINE pilot (not just a pilot) than a CPC? If so this just proves my point.

ATC requires a high school education. That is it. Anyone can apply and certify. I've done this nearly 20 years and seen people that should have washed get 1000 hours or more to certify on one position.

Lets look at Spirit who is considered by many to be bottom tier. This is what some pilot sites say they want to get hired:

Minimum requirements:
1,500 hours total time.
Current Unrestricted Airline Transport Pilot License with multi-engine land.
Current FAA First Class Medical Certificate.
FCC Radio Telephone Operator Permit.

Preferred Requirements:

2,500 hours total time in fixed wing aircraft.
750 hours in multi-engine, turboprop or jet aircraft.
A320 Type Rating.
Undergraduate degree from an Accredited Four-Year College or University.
Experience in 121 airlines or turbojet aircraft.
Experience in aircraft equipped with EFIS and/or FMS.
Instructor/Check Airman experience.



If it was so easy most of you would have gone airlines but you couldn't. If you went to Embry Riddle just to fail and join ATC, youre an even bigger idiot. Same for anyone that went CTI and didnt get a CTO and had to join OTS. This career field is full of absolute morons and not hard to do. The fact you actually think youre as special and highly trained as the 2 dudes solely responsible for a plane while you work at a tower/tracon/center with tons of people as safety nets is absolutely hilarious.
It’s absolutely absurd we hire people with high school diplomas only. That’s prolly why half of them don’t make it.

Spirit isn’t bottom tier at all. Spirit is a major airline. You generally don’t start at a major airline. You don’t even know what you are talking about
 
What? If you cant land a job as a pilot then you're just plain lazy or think too highly of yourself and need to seek a new career.

This is only true if you ignore the ~$100k out of pocket and half a decade of training that pilots need before they can even get hired at a regional. Pilots need to self-fund all their training until 250 hours at the earliest, which costs $50,000 at the low end. Even once you land a CFI job and are getting paid to fly, you're probably making $15-20/hr for a few more years while you build time and drown in paying back the loans you had to take out. The pilot could lose their medical (more stringent medicals than we have to hold) after sinking tens of thousands into training, or have an incident that makes them unhireable, and they'd still have to pay back all those loans despite having no chance of ever flying for a living. Compare this to a new trainee at the academy who's getting paid from day one of training and won't owe the FAA a cent if they quit or wash out. This person has very little skin in the game beyond having to live in Oklahoma for a few months, and they're even being paid per diem while they're there.

Beyond all that, the current hiring boom at the airlines is almost unprecedented and is already starting to slow down. The airline industry is massively cyclical and there's no way of knowing when the merry-go-round will stop suddenly and leave a lot of people out in the cold. Ask someone who entered the industry after 9/11, or who had to take a 60% pay cut and lose all their seniority when their airline closed in 2009. I'm not gonna get into which job is harder or more prestigious or whatever, but you literally can't compare a government job with no experience required and paid training to a private-sector job that requires half a decade of self-funded training.
 
Both jobs are tradeskill. Both require similar attributes to be successful. One takes time and money to reach min’s for entry to an airline, the other takes work/school/combo/experience to enter. Having/not having a college degree is not an indicator of success. Not sure why you think being a pilot is so much more difficult than working busy traffic in an atc environment.
 
This is only true if you ignore the ~$100k out of pocket and half a decade of training that pilots need before they can even get hired at a regional. Pilots need to self-fund all their training until 250 hours at the earliest, which costs $50,000 at the low end. Even once you land a CFI job and are getting paid to fly, you're probably making $15-20/hr for a few more years while you build time and drown in paying back the loans you had to take out. The pilot could lose their medical (more stringent medicals than we have to hold) after sinking tens of thousands into training, or have an incident that makes them unhireable, and they'd still have to pay back all those loans despite having no chance of ever flying for a living. Compare this to a new trainee at the academy who's getting paid from day one of training and won't owe the FAA a cent if they quit or wash out. This person has very little skin in the game beyond having to live in Oklahoma for a few months, and they're even being paid per diem while they're there.

Beyond all that, the current hiring boom at the airlines is almost unprecedented and is already starting to slow down. The airline industry is massively cyclical and there's no way of knowing when the merry-go-round will stop suddenly and leave a lot of people out in the cold. Ask someone who entered the industry after 9/11, or who had to take a 60% pay cut and lose all their seniority when their airline closed in 2009. I'm not gonna get into which job is harder or more prestigious or whatever, but you literally can't compare a government job with no experience required and paid training to a private-sector job that requires half a decade of self-funded training.
Hey hey! You’re clouding the issue w facts here. Knock it off! 🤣
 
This is only true if you ignore the ~$100k out of pocket and half a decade of training that pilots need before they can even get hired at a regional. Pilots need to self-fund all their training until 250 hours at the earliest, which costs $50,000 at the low end. Even once you land a CFI job and are getting paid to fly, you're probably making $15-20/hr for a few more years while you build time and drown in paying back the loans you had to take out. The pilot could lose their medical (more stringent medicals than we have to hold) after sinking tens of thousands into training, or have an incident that makes them unhireable, and they'd still have to pay back all those loans despite having no chance of ever flying for a living. Compare this to a new trainee at the academy who's getting paid from day one of training and won't owe the FAA a cent if they quit or wash out. This person has very little skin in the game beyond having to live in Oklahoma for a few months, and they're even being paid per diem while they're there.

Beyond all that, the current hiring boom at the airlines is almost unprecedented and is already starting to slow down. The airline industry is massively cyclical and there's no way of knowing when the merry-go-round will stop suddenly and leave a lot of people out in the cold. Ask someone who entered the industry after 9/11, or who had to take a 60% pay cut and lose all their seniority when their airline closed in 2009. I'm not gonna get into which job is harder or more prestigious or whatever, but you literally can't compare a government job with no experience required and paid training to a private-sector job that requires half a decade of self-funded training.
It’s only 100k if you literally pay for all your hours to getting an ATP and I don’t know anyone who does that besides super rich kids. Plenty of regular kids become pilots. Once you get to 250 hours you can fly 135 and keep building.
 
Both jobs are tradeskill. Both require similar attributes to be successful. One takes time and money to reach min’s for entry to an airline, the other takes work/school/combo/experience to enter. Having/not having a college degree is not an indicator of success. Not sure why you think being a pilot is so much more difficult than working busy traffic in an atc environment.
But the barriers/requirements for entry are not even close
 
This is only true if you ignore the ~$100k out of pocket and half a decade of training that pilots need before they can even get hired at a regional. Pilots need to self-fund all their training until 250 hours at the earliest, which costs $50,000 at the low end. Even once you land a CFI job and are getting paid to fly, you're probably making $15-20/hr for a few more years while you build time and drown in paying back the loans you had to take out. The pilot could lose their medical (more stringent medicals than we have to hold) after sinking tens of thousands into training, or have an incident that makes them unhireable, and they'd still have to pay back all those loans despite having no chance of ever flying for a living. Compare this to a new trainee at the academy who's getting paid from day one of training and won't owe the FAA a cent if they quit or wash out. This person has very little skin in the game beyond having to live in Oklahoma for a few months, and they're even being paid per diem while they're there.

Beyond all that, the current hiring boom at the airlines is almost unprecedented and is already starting to slow down. The airline industry is massively cyclical and there's no way of knowing when the merry-go-round will stop suddenly and leave a lot of people out in the cold. Ask someone who entered the industry after 9/11, or who had to take a 60% pay cut and lose all their seniority when their airline closed in 2009. I'm not gonna get into which job is harder or more prestigious or whatever, but you literally can't compare a government job with no experience required and paid training to a private-sector job that requires half a decade of self-funded training.
It’s only 100k if you literally pay for all your hours to getting an ATP and I don’t know anyone who does that besides super rich kids. The barriers to become an ATC are harder. You have to pass some insane test. Everyone that can afford to go to flight school gets to go. Atc process has an insane amount of 1 and done events
 
How about time invested for 1 thing? years
Eh… this is a weird one. I know people with 5 years ATC experience but no CTO who apply off the street and don’t get picked up because of the competitiveness. So tie in the length of the hiring process, academy, facility training pipeline which is compounded if you get the center route (which isn’t up to you to decide). It could be 5 years before you’re a CPC. That’s not even accounting for the folks who get tier 2’d or the FAA loses their paperwork and it takes 3 years just to get through hiring. Potato puhtahtoe.
 
Eh… this is a weird one. I know people with 5 years ATC experience but no CTO who apply off the street and don’t get picked up because of the competitiveness. So tie in the length of the hiring process, academy, facility training pipeline which is compounded if you get the center route (which isn’t up to you to decide). It could be 5 years before you’re a CPC. That’s not even accounting for the folks who get tier 2’d or the FAA loses their paperwork and it takes 3 years just to get through hiring. Potato puhtahtoe.
Then you get out of the academy, check into your new facility, let’s see…. Nantucket where you’re making $24/hr, train for a year and CPC and earn $36/hr. Oh look! It’s been 9 years and you’re still at Nantucket because you’ve done everything by the book and because of that, you can’t transfer and move up in your career because of staffing 🙂
 
don’t get picked up because of the competitiveness.

That's a weird way to say "weren't as highly qualified as others". We can debate whether the ATSA adequately measures controller ability, but the person who scores highest on the ATSA will get a TOL 100% of the time. If you take the test and don't get a TOL it's because you didn't score high enough - there's literally nothing else to it. And why are these people applying OTS in the first place if they're eligible for prior experience bids?

So tie in the length of the hiring process, academy, facility training pipeline which is compounded if you get the center route (which isn’t up to you to decide). It could be 5 years before you’re a CPC.

Again, you're comparing PAYING for your own training with BEING PAID (even if it's not a lot on AG pay) to train. Completely different things. You wanna make it comparable? Have trainees work for free all through training, plus make them pay the 20% OJT incentive directly to their trainers every time they plug in, and they don't see a dime from the FAA until they make CPC.
 
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