*Insert Clickbait Thread Title Name Regarding Unions Here*

[Logical_Mongoose]

Huh... I wonder why they just didn't extend their contract instead?

UPS, Teamsters avoid massive strike, reach tentative agreement on new contract

"After months of negotiations, the sides agreed to a new tentative five-year contract that the Teamsters said was “overwhelmingly lucrative,” securing over 60 changes and improvements — more than any in the union’s history — with no concessions from rank-and-file workers."

 

[MJ]

...the best contract in the history of UPS...

ATC already had the best contract, so no need for another

 

[AB19]

Huh... I wonder why they just didn't extend their contract instead?

UPS, Teamsters avoid massive strike, reach tentative agreement on new contract

"After months of negotiations, the sides agreed to a new tentative five-year contract that the Teamsters said was “overwhelmingly lucrative,” securing over 60 changes and improvements — more than any in the union’s history — with no concessions from rank-and-file workers."

Well they can strike unlike another union

 

[GulfCharlie]

Well they can strike unlike another union

True, and striking is a powerful tool, however it still does not absolve the NEB from pushing to negotiate on our behalf with the "most labour friendly administration. "

 

[Ad1234]

not defending the extension, but can we really compare to private industry? im not sure its an apples to apples comparison.

 

[CoffeeIV]

"Under the tentative five-year agreement, existing full and part-time UPS Teamsters will earn $2.75 more per hour in 2023, and $7.50 more per hour over the length of the contract."

So they get $7.50 more per hour over 5 years.... wow. We've had more than a 19% pay raise over the past 5 years and a level 4 VFR tower had a larger pay raise.

"UPS also committed to adding air conditioning to delivery vehicles purchased starting next year."

I also like how they can lose all seniority if they dont get an absence approved by the union and management. Plus how much less leave they get. How UPS claims they give sick leave on their website yet workers claim you don't actually get sick days.

Big win! /s

 

[GulfCharlie]

"Under the tentative five-year agreement, existing full and part-time UPS Teamsters will earn $2.75 more per hour in 2023, and $7.50 more per hour over the length of the contract."

So they get $7.50 more per hour over 5 years.... wow. We've had more than a 19% pay raise over the past 5 years and a level 4 VFR tower had a larger pay raise.

"UPS also committed to adding air conditioning to delivery vehicles purchased starting next year."

I also like how they can lose all seniority if they dont get an absence approved by the union and management. Plus how much less leave they get. How UPS claims they give sick leave on their website yet workers claim you don't actually get sick days.

Big win! /s

If you read the Federal Soup forums (Back in the day) the Postal one was always... well... way more inflamed by its posters. The conditions they worked under along with the management that was/is in charge would make the White Book look like sweet cake.

 

[32andBelow]

not defending the extension, but can we really compare to private industry? im not sure its an apples to apples comparison.

We negotiated the slate book. They could negotiate the diamond book

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

"Under the tentative five-year agreement, existing full and part-time UPS Teamsters will earn $2.75 more per hour in 2023, and $7.50 more per hour over the length of the contract."

So they get $7.50 more per hour over 5 years.... wow. We've had more than a 19% pay raise over the past 5 years and a level 4 VFR tower had a larger pay raise.

I wasn't able to find it explicitly stated: is it $2.75 immediately and then $7.50 additional over 5 years totaling $10.25, or 2.75 immediately and 4.75 additional over 5 years totaling 7.50?

Regardless, the average UPS pay is roughly $19/hr so even $7.50 is still a ~40% raise over 5 years for their median worker, which is roughly 7% every year. If it is $10.25 then that's closer to 10% every year and a ~60% raise over 5 years.

 

[CoffeeIV]

I wasn't able to find it explicitly stated: is it $2.75 immediately and then $7.50 additional over 5 years totaling $10.25, or 2.75 immediately and 4.75 additional over 5 years totaling 7.50?

Regardless, the average UPS pay is roughly $19/hr so even $7.50 is still a ~40% raise over 5 years for their median worker, which is roughly 7% every year. If it is $10.25 then that's closer to 10% every year and a ~60% raise over 5 years.

Per reuters:
UPS part-timers currently make about $20 per hour. Under the agreement, that would move up to $21 and advance to $23 per hour over the next five years.
Analysts said investors were most interested in the new starting part-time wage, which was expected to reach as much as $25.

So barely any change for part timers. $7.50 max for full time over the next 5 years per the union.


This is such a shit contract. I'm not even remotely surprised that people on here actually think it's good.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Per reuters:
UPS part-timers currently make about $20 per hour. Under the agreement, that would move up to $21 and advance to $23 per hour over the next five years.
Analysts said investors were most interested in the new starting part-time wage, which was expected to reach as much as $25.

So barely any change for part timers. $7.50 max for full time over the next 5 years per the union.


This is such a shit contract. I'm not even remotely surprised that people on here actually think it's good.

I did not say it was good, I merely made the observation that our Union could do more.

 

[CoffeeIV]

I did not say it was good, I merely made the observation that our Union could do more.

I didn't mean you. Our union could do more. They could also lose a lot more compared to all of these "amazing contracts" that get talked about on here.

Hot take: Lets talk about actual good contracts recently: The airline pilots. We do not deserve a contract that is on par with airline pilots. I'm sorry but ATC is nowhere near as prestigious of a job as an airline pilot nor does it bare as much responsibility.

 

[HighFrequency]

I didn't mean you. Our union could do more. They could also lose a lot more compared to all of these "amazing contracts" that get talked about on here.

Hot take: Lets talk about actual good contracts recently: The airline pilots. We do not deserve a contract that is on par with airline pilots. I'm sorry but ATC is nowhere near as prestigious of a job as an airline pilot nor does it bare as much responsibility.

 

[32andBelow]

I didn't mean you. Our union could do more. They could also lose a lot more compared to all of these "amazing contracts" that get talked about on here.

Hot take: Lets talk about actual good contracts recently: The airline pilots. We do not deserve a contract that is on par with airline pilots. I'm sorry but ATC is nowhere near as prestigious of a job as an airline pilot nor does it bare as much responsibility.

I’ve never met a group that’s been more against themselves getting a raise then controllers.

 

[CoffeeIV]

I’ve never met a group that’s been more against themselves getting a raise then controllers.

Most people here want a raise and post all the time about how NATCA isn't doing what it can blah blah blah. I'm just asking for a comparable. I don't view the airline unions as a comparable because I think (and they are) a way harder job to get than ATC. Using this UPS union win as a comparable is silly because the incentives they got are shit.

I want some actual facts and not just :

 

[Papacharlie327]

I’ve never met a group that’s been more against themselves getting a raise than controllers.

That’s how we ended up with a NATCA president that drives a Miata and has cats.

 

[Phillytroll69]

That’s how we ended up with a NATCA president that drives a Miata and has cats.

So y u hating

That’s how we ended up with a NATCA president that drives a Miata and has cats.

The breakthrough technology of the 1990 Miata, also known as the Mazda MX-5 Miata, revolutionized the sports car industry and earned its place as one of the best sports cars ever made. At its core was the perfect balance achieved between lightweight design and responsive handling. The 1990 Miata boasted a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout, which provided an unparalleled driving experience that allowed enthusiasts to feel truly connected to the road. Its innovative double-wishbone suspension system offered exceptional agility and precise cornering capabilities, setting new standards for sports cars of its time. The Miata's compact and sleek design not only made it visually appealing but also contributed to its remarkable aerodynamics. Whether on winding roads or race tracks, the 1990 Miata delivered an exhilarating driving experience, capturing the hearts of car enthusiasts and cementing its place in automotive history as the epitome of a pure and enjoyable sports car.

 

[32andBelow]

Most people here want a raise and post all the time about how NATCA isn't doing what it can blah blah blah. I'm just asking for a comparable. I don't view the airline unions as a comparable because I think (and they are) a way harder job to get than ATC. Using this UPS union win as a comparable is silly because the incentives they got are shit.

I want some actual facts and not just :

How is pilot a harder job than atc? Maybe we shouldn’t make 350k but we should be a lot closer. I don’t think I’ve ever met someone in public who thinks atc is easy. Yes you can ask your employer for money that’s how it works 🤣🤣🤣. Getting paid for work isn’t woke

 

[n0vemberh0tel]

Most people here want a raise and post all the time about how NATCA isn't doing what it can blah blah blah. I'm just asking for a comparable. I don't view the airline unions as a comparable because I think (and they are) a way harder job to get than ATC. Using this UPS union win as a comparable is silly because the incentives they got are shit.

I want some actual facts and not just :

What? If you cant land a job as a pilot then you're just plain lazy or think too highly of yourself and need to seek a new career.

 

[CoffeeIV]

What? If you cant land a job as a pilot then you're just plain lazy or think too highly of yourself and need to seek a new career.

How is pilot a harder job than atc? Maybe we shouldn’t make 350k but we should be a lot closer. I don’t think I’ve ever met someone in public who thinks atc is easy. Yes you can ask your employer for money that’s how it works 🤣🤣🤣. Getting paid for work isn’t woke

Are you both suggesting it's easier to become an AIRLINE pilot (not just a pilot) than a CPC? If so this just proves my point.

ATC requires a high school education. That is it. Anyone can apply and certify. I've done this nearly 20 years and seen people that should have washed get 1000 hours or more to certify on one position.

Lets look at Spirit who is considered by many to be bottom tier. This is what some pilot sites say they want to get hired:

Minimum requirements:
1,500 hours total time.
Current Unrestricted Airline Transport Pilot License with multi-engine land.
Current FAA First Class Medical Certificate.
FCC Radio Telephone Operator Permit.

Preferred Requirements:

2,500 hours total time in fixed wing aircraft.
750 hours in multi-engine, turboprop or jet aircraft.
A320 Type Rating.
Undergraduate degree from an Accredited Four-Year College or University.
Experience in 121 airlines or turbojet aircraft.
Experience in aircraft equipped with EFIS and/or FMS.
Instructor/Check Airman experience.



If it was so easy most of you would have gone airlines but you couldn't. If you went to Embry Riddle just to fail and join ATC, youre an even bigger idiot. Same for anyone that went CTI and didnt get a CTO and had to join OTS. This career field is full of absolute morons and not hard to do. The fact you actually think youre as special and highly trained as the 2 dudes solely responsible for a plane while you work at a tower/tracon/center with tons of people as safety nets is absolutely hilarious.