March (Q2) 2020

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All things being equal, a level 12 controller should be favored over a level 4 controller. You can twist it all you want. I used the word objectively in the correct context.

You even said yourself, all things being equal

But they aren't equal, they're two different lines of business. Who would a center rather have, a level 12 tower transfer or a level 10 center transfer?
 
There are people who work at C90 and A80 who will tell you it's highly structured and really not that hard. Most people would beg to differ. My issue is you're speaking as if what you're saying is factual. I've spoken with several people who work there who will say the opposite.
I guess I haven’t been there either or spoken in depth with the person I know ?‍♂️ Pull up the LiveATC, it’s cleared to land/cleared for takeoff lol
 
I was wondering how long it would take before someone said something about how controllers from a level __ shouldn't be working at a 12. Some of y'all need to get over yourselves with the mentality that only certain levels deserve to work at a 12 when y'all know good and well you'd be struggling at a vfr tower.
 
You even said yourself, all things being equal

But they aren't equal, they're two different lines of business. Who would a center rather have, a level 12 tower transfer or a level 10 center transfer?

I'll concede this point. It does not change the fact that a level 4 controller with under two years is being ranked ahead of people with much more experience at higher level facilities. Tower facilities.

I find it bizarre that I'm getting such push back on pointing out a fucked up situation. NCEPT has major flaws. They may have existed in previous systems, but that doesn't make them less true. Add in that movements are severely restricted and you arrive where we are now.

I was wondering how long it would take before someone said something about how controllers from a level __ shouldn't be working at a 12. Some of y'all need to get over yourselves with the mentality that only certain levels deserve to work at a 12 when y'all know good and well you'd be struggling at a vfr tower.

Here we go again. If you think a level 4 tower controller is equally qualified to transfer to a 12 as one with more years at a busier, more complex facility, I have nothing else to say to you. ORD doesn't have touch and goes or VFR's.
 
I guess I haven’t been there either or spoken in depth with the person I know ?‍♂️ Pull up the LiveATC, it’s cleared to land/cleared for takeoff lol
Yes. That's all they're doing. It's very easy. Anyone can do it. I particularly like how you admit your ignorance in the first sentence and then double down on that ignorance in the second sentence.
 
Here we go again. If you think a level 4 tower controller is equally qualified to transfer to a 12 as one with more years at a busier, more complex facility, I have nothing else to say to you. ORD doesn't have touch and goes or VFR's.
I don't think a controller is more or less qualified based on their current level. Your way of thinking that someone from any center is more qualified to work a 12 tower than another tower controller is flawed. I can guarantee that my lowly level 6 has taught me way more about chapter 3 than someone who's been sitting in a radar room for their entire career.
 
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I don't think a controller is more or less qualified based on their current level. Your way of thinking that someone from any center is more qualified to work a 12 tower than another tower controller is flawed. I can guarantee that my lowly level 6 has taught me way more about chapter 3 than someone who's been sitting in a radar room for their entire career.

Let's make this a more simple question to see how far apart we are on this: Do you think it is reasonable that a level 4 employee with less than two years in the agency should be selected by a level 12 tower over an individual with more years at a higher level tower facility? They suspiciously have a family member who is a part of management in the district for which they were selected. Nothing about that is wrong to you?
 
Any SFO to comment? I worked with a guy that said SFO local could be a major bitch, one local works all runways, arrival and departures, because they intersect.
Wait till the arrival crosses and clear the departure, must need an
Any SFO to comment? I worked with a guy that said SFO local could be a major bitch, one local works all runways, arrival and departures, because they intersect.
[/QUOTE
Wait until the arrival crosses the intersection then launch the departure??????? Lol
 
Let's make this a more simple question to see how far apart we are on this: Do you think it is reasonable that a level 4 employee with less than two years in the agency should be selected by a level 12 tower over an individual with more years at a higher level tower facility? They suspiciously have a family member who is a part of management in the district for which they were selected. Nothing about that is wrong to you?
What is “The Good Ole Boy System”?
 
I'll concede this point. It does not change the fact that a level 4 controller with under two years is being ranked ahead of people with much more experience at higher level facilities. Tower facilities.

I find it bizarre that I'm getting such push back on pointing out a fucked up situation. NCEPT has major flaws. They may have existed in previous systems, but that doesn't make them less true. Add in that movements are severely restricted and you arrive where

If you think this selection is so bad you should see the non NCEPT managerial selections.
I'll concede this point. It does not change the fact that a level 4 controller with under two years is being ranked ahead of people with much more experience at higher level facilities. Tower facilities.

I find it bizarre that I'm getting such push back on pointing out a fucked up situation. NCEPT has major flaws. They may have existed in previous systems, but that doesn't make them less true. Add in that movements are severely restricted and you arrive where we are now.


If you think this selection is so bad wait until you see every non NCEPT managerial selection for the past decade.
 
Let's make this a more simple question to see how far apart we are on this: Do you think it is reasonable that a level 4 employee with less than two years in the agency should be selected by a level 12 tower over an individual with more years at a higher level tower facility? They suspiciously have a family member who is a part of management in the district for which they were selected. Nothing about that is wrong to you?
Look I agree if nepotism gets someone selected then it is messed up. But I am not specifically talking about this one MIC-ORD selection, I'm saying in the grand scheme of things, you cant look at just facility level and say someone is more qualified than another. I can only speak about towers but there are level 5-7 towers that work way more air carrier traffic than a few 8-9s. If I was ranking someone for a spot at ATL and my options are someone from GFK or SRQ, im going with the person that has actually worked a decent amount or air carriers.
 
Look I agree if nepotism gets someone selected then it is messed up. But I am not specifically talking about this one MIC-ORD selection, I'm saying in the grand scheme of things, you cant look at just facility level and say someone is more qualified than another. I can only speak about towers but there are level 5-7 towers that work way more air carrier traffic than a few 8-9s. If I was ranking someone for a spot at ATL and my options are someone from GFK or SRQ, im going with the person that has actually worked a decent amount or air carriers.
I'd pick the person who can work volume and not 5 southwest planes a day.
 
Thanks for all the info from this thread. I didn’t realize all these high level facilities were so easy to work? Is it 2021 that the flat pay rate for levels 4 through 12 start? Sign me up! Also, I assume we don’t need to fill out the form 3330 “Rating of Air Traffic Experience for AT Movement” since it’s a waste of time.
 
Well it looks like nobody got that lifeline outta BIL. Maybe next time...
Give ‘em a few cycles to reload then it’ll be off to DEN and DFW again
 
I understand where you are coming from. At a level 8 that has been able to release the last 3 panels, no one person has been selected and have been passed over for 4/5/6. Reason, bc while able to release our projected staffing is lower then these lower facilities and it doesn’t make sense to move us over someone at a facility projected over 100%. So we don’t get anyone from the academy, don’t release anyone, feels kinda stagnant. We had a controller passed over for an 11 Tracon for a guy 8 months in the agency at a level 4-5 VFR tower only bc it made sense, his facility was projected like 130%. (We know he wasn’t ranked higher)
That's not how it works but whatever.
 
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