March (Q2) 2020

[FireNCEPT]

If there is a specific person to highlight how broken the NCEPT process is, it is the one selected from MIC for ORD on this panel. I'm not here to reveal the identity of anyone as they aren't to blame anyway, but this situation is so absurd, even by the FAA's standards, that it warrants investigation. I don't even have an interest in transferring to ORD, but, again, this situation should be the face of NCEPT. This isn't OK. And we shouldn't be OK with it.

Facts: This controller has worked at one facility, MIC. They have less than two years of FAA experience. Less than two years at a level 4. Two years. Level 4. And they were selected at ORD over individuals with obviously more experience from obviously busier facilities because it would be difficult for someone to have less experience. This individual has direct family ties to the district. How do I know? It's a small agency.

Maybe a few people will read this and get mad. Maybe they will read it and assume I'm butthurt. I have no ties to this situation whatsoever. The facts are the facts.

Nothing will change. The process is broken and the agency doesn't care about you. Good luck.

I want to reiterate not to blame the person selected. This isn't their fault.

 

[JNev]

I don't see how that can be true about local. It doesn't sound like you've heard from someone who works there.

Uhhh he works there rn but regardless. Highly structured facilities tend to create easier local controls. Also just want to clarify, not saying it’s easy, just nowhere near as difficult as you’d think

 

[Terrible_Sequence]

None because everyone just wants to complain and say look how NATCA screwed you. Up your PAC it’ll get you there. None of those will get you there lol but best of luck.

What kind of good controller actually does that?

 

[Mikeyanker]

If that did happen and you don’t let someone know how could they fix it? Mistakes happen. So instead of talking about how messed up it is tell someone so it could get fixed or shut up about it.

Where did I talk about “how it is messed up?” Asking for clarification bud. HR has an obligation to run this process based on the MOU. They failed to do so and have caused a relocation delay potentially for one of my affected co-workers and now I’m trying to dig information to see that they are taken care of. Calm down and breathe before you hit the “post reply” button. You look like a dipshit.

 

[Terrible_Sequence]

Ever think the managers ranking list had that individual ranked high? What’s your solution? Sit in the corner suck your thumb and cry about it? Point the finger at the NCEPT guys and say you guys suck when they had no say in selecting the individual? ?? Good luck buddy

If there is a specific person to highlight how broken the NCEPT process is, it is the one selected from MIC for ORD on this panel. I'm not here to reveal the identity of anyone as they aren't to blame anyway, but this situation is so absurd, even by the FAA's standards, that it warrants investigation. I don't even have an interest in transferring to ORD, but, again, this situation should be the face of NCEPT. This isn't OK. And we shouldn't be OK with it.

Facts: This controller has worked at one facility, MIC. They have less than two years of FAA experience. Less than two years at a level 4. Two years. Level 4. And they were selected at ORD over individuals with obviously more experience from obviously busier facilities because it would be difficult for someone to have less experience. This individual has direct family ties to the district. How do I know? It's a small agency.

Maybe a few people will read this and get mad. Maybe they will read it and assume I'm butthurt. I have no ties to this situation whatsoever. The facts are the facts.

Nothing will change. The process is broken and the agency doesn't care about you. Good luck.

I want to reiterate not to blame the person selected. This isn't their fault.

 

[FireNCEPT]

Ever think the managers ranking list had that individual ranked high? What’s your solution? Sit in the corner suck your thumb and cry about it? Point the finger at the NCEPT guys and say you guys suck when they had no say in selecting the individual? ?? Good luck buddy

Obviously this person was ranked highly. It is a broken system that allowed it to happen.

 

[FlimFlam]

Uhhh he works there rn but regardless. Highly structured facilities tend to create easier local controls. Also just want to clarify, not saying it’s easy, just nowhere near as difficult as you’d think

There are people who work at C90 and A80 who will tell you it's highly structured and really not that hard. Most people would beg to differ. My issue is you're speaking as if what you're saying is factual. I've spoken with several people who work there who will say the opposite.

 

[Terrible_Sequence]

Where did I talk about “how it is messed up?” Asking for clarification bud. HR has an obligation to run this process based on the MOU. They failed to do so and have caused a relocation delay potentially for one of my affected co-workers and now I’m trying to dig information to see that they are taken care of. Calm down and breathe before you hit the “post reply” button. You look like a dipshit.

then to answer you yeah if there was an error like that they could make corrections or prioritize someone on the next panel. It has happened before. Sorry if I came of like a dipshit but I am.

Obviously this person was ranked highly. It is a broken system that allowed it to happen.

I don’t hear a solution just a problem. ?

 

[Move78]

If there is a specific person to highlight how broken the NCEPT process is, it is the one selected from MIC for ORD on this panel. I'm not here to reveal the identity of anyone as they aren't to blame anyway, but this situation is so absurd, even by the FAA's standards, that it warrants investigation. I don't even have an interest in transferring to ORD, but, again, this situation should be the face of NCEPT. This isn't OK. And we shouldn't be OK with it.

Facts: This controller has worked at one facility, MIC. They have less than two years of FAA experience. Less than two years at a level 4. Two years. Level 4. And they were selected at ORD over individuals with obviously more experience from obviously busier facilities because it would be difficult for someone to have less experience. This individual has direct family ties to the district. How do I know? It's a small agency.

Maybe a few people will read this and get mad. Maybe they will read it and assume I'm butthurt. I have no ties to this situation whatsoever. The facts are the facts.

Nothing will change. The process is broken and the agency doesn't care about you. Good luck.

I want to reiterate not to blame the person selected. This isn't their fault.

Nobody is going to support a system in which the receiving facility doesn't have any control over who they want to hire. That's who ORD chose. Also there's a few dozen high level radar facilities that are mandated to receive hundreds of new hires with 0 years of FAA experience...

 

[7four11]

Obviously this person was ranked highly. It is a broken system that allowed it to happen.

Like you stated, can’t hate the player, hate the game. This is the system in place and they took advantage of an opportunity, that was not available in the past. Wish them nothing but success.

 

[FireNCEPT]

I don’t hear a solution just a problem. ?

I don’t hear a solution just a problem. ?

That's a great point. It's even more constructive to sit there and talk shit about people highlighting problems that need to be fixed.

Here are solutions. Max level jumps. Actual consideration of experience. Protections against blatant nepotism.

 

[Terrible_Sequence]

Nobody is going to support a system in which the receiving facility doesn't have any control over who they want to hire. That's who ORD chose. Also there's a few dozen high level radar facilities that are mandated to receive hundreds of new hires with 0 years of FAA experience...

Don’t disagree with the new hire issue when lower to mid levels want to move up but can’t because an OTS AG0 got a spot at Zxx

 

[FireNCEPT]

Nobody is going to support a system in which the receiving facility doesn't have any control over who they want to hire. That's who ORD chose. Also there's a few dozen high level radar facilities that are mandated to receive hundreds of new hires with 0 years of FAA experience...

ORD is not even remotely comparable to a Center. Do you think people should get ORD out of the academy? Do you think a Level 4 to ORD is a good move?

 

[Move78]

ORD is not even remotely comparable to a Center. Do you think people should get ORD out of the academy? Do you think a Level 4 to ORD is a good move?

They send people with 0 years FAA experience to N90 which has a way lower success rate than ORD. They used to send new hires to all sorts of 12 facilities. Plus most controllers have no say in where they start. Maybe this level 4 controller is really smart. Maybe he's really stupid. Whichever case is true it will have nothing to do with his current facility level. If it was a guy with 2 years at ZAU to ORD there would be no outrage. And the ZAU guy would be actually be less qualified in some ways.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

They send people with 0 years FAA experience to N90 which has a way lower success rate than ORD. They used to send new hires to all sorts of 12 facilities. Plus most controllers have no say in where they start. Maybe this level 4 controller is really smart. Maybe he's really stupid. Whichever case is true it will have nothing to do with his current facility level. If it was a guy with 2 years at ZAU to ORD there would be no outrage. And the ZAU guy would be actually be less qualified in some ways.

The controller you reference is a women not a “he” (unless they choose to identify that way), you must assume all controllers are men.

 

[Move78]

The controller you reference is a women not a “he” (unless they choose to identify that way), you must assume all controllers are men.

Looks like we both assumed a gender. We could be in deep shit here soon. Keep this off of twitter.

 

[FireNCEPT]

They send people with 0 years FAA experience to N90 which has a way lower success rate than ORD. They used to send new hires to all sorts of 12 facilities. Plus most controllers have no say in where they start. Maybe this level 4 controller is really smart. Maybe he's really stupid. Whichever case is true it will have nothing to do with his current facility level. If it was a guy with 2 years at ZAU to ORD there would be no outrage. And the ZAU guy would be actually be less qualified in some ways.

Why dont they send new hires to "all sorts of level 12 facilities" anymore?

Yes, a CPC at a level 12 facility of any kind is objectively more qualified than one from a 4. I'm not saying low level controllers are bad in any way. I'm saying that the current system is complete garbage and the training success rates prove it to be so. NCEPT was supposed to make the transferring process more objective and transparent and it has completely failed in both regards.

 

[Move78]

Why dont they send new hires to "all sorts of level 12 facilities" anymore?

Yes, a CPC at a level 12 facility of any kind is objectively more qualified than one from a 4. I'm not saying low level controllers are bad in any way. I'm saying that the current system is complete garbage and the training success rates prove it to be so. NCEPT was supposed to make the transferring process more objective and transparent and it has completely failed in both regards.

There are 12 towers that rank 12 center controllers 100th. You're misunderstanding the meaning of objectively. The receiving facility decides what subjective qualifications they're looking for.

 

[FireNCEPT]

There are 12 towers that rank 12 center controllers 100th. You're misunderstanding the meaning of objectively. The receiving facility decides what subjective qualifications they're looking for.

All things being equal, a level 12 controller should be favored over a level 4 controller. You can twist it all you want. I used the word objectively in the correct context.

 

[Maintainvfr]

All things being equal, a level 12 controller should be favored over a level 4 controller. You can twist it all you want. I used the word objectively in the correct context.

Yeah but you're wrong. A level 12 center controller is not objectively more qualified than any level tower controller. You might argue that they're more qualified, but any level center controller is never OBJECTIVELY more qualified for a tower than a tower controller, even if it's low level. Otherwise you wouldn't have to argue it.


Side note - the issues that are being brought up are certainly valid. But they certainly aren't worse with NCEPT than they were before. One might even say that NCEPT is objectively better...