Natca wants oversight of new training?

[flypilot]

I graduated from ASU CTI, and I think it's a pretty good program but certainly not the best fit for letting them skip the academy. The good is that all the ATC classes are taught by retired controllers. Tower is taught by a guy who retired from BUR I think? He got there after I graduated but I was taught by a retired PHX controller. Tracon is taught by a retired P50 controller and enroute is taught by a retired ZLA controller.

The bad is while ASU does have a TSS (they got PHX tower's old TSS when they got a new one) the problem is they simulate PHX tower, not academy airspace or any similar type of airspace. I didnt do any pattern traffic in the tower class. They do teach that stuff in the tower lecture and you learn all the terminal parts of the .65 but you dont actually do it in the sim. I didnt feel like I had much of a leg up at OKC compared to the no experience classmates.

Now the tracon class is actually really good and pretty similar to RTF but again, they simulate P50 not academy. But you still learn how to run a final, vector, run approaches to a satellite (only 1 though). They even have a fairly accurate STARS sim. I did feel like I had a major leg up at RTF compared to the no experience people because I already knew how to work that kind of environment.

The enroute class was pretty good but they simulated ZLA sector 18 and 36? I think. LAX departures and LA satellite arrivals but they dont teach any d side. I'm not at a center so I can't say how helpful it is for real enroute, but they also have what is likely a fairly accurate ERAM sim.

Of my graduating class all 6 of us got hired, passed OKC, and 5 have certified because we got terminal 1 is still training cause he got enroute.

 

[Periculant]

One could say that, can’t be worse than OTS trainees.
Improve working conditions now:
10hours between shifts
2x for all OT
If on YES list fine, if on NO list means NO! This job is getting to be worse then the military.
Think people gonna magically go roll the dice on paying for CTI school when they hear how bad things are currently as ATC

I would say my life while I was at a fixed base facility in the military was definitely better. Results may very but for me the schedule we unquestionably better.

 

[ncssailor]

I would say my life while I was at a fixed base facility in the military was definitely better. Results may very but for me the schedule we unquestionably better.

💯 agree they had us on one week of nights and one week of days. Never felt tired at work. And no overtime that was a huge plus.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I would say my life while I was at a fixed base facility in the military was definitely better. Results may very but for me the schedule we unquestionably better.

bUt yOuR FaCiLiTy vOtEs oN ThE ScHeDuLe, So yOu cOuLd dO ThAt iF YoU WaNtEd

Boots and Coffee, probably

 

[BDUB]

I graduated from ASU CTI, and I think it's a pretty good program but certainly not the best fit for letting them skip the academy. The good is that all the ATC classes are taught by retired controllers. Tower is taught by a guy who retired from BUR I think? He got there after I graduated but I was taught by a retired PHX controller. Tracon is taught by a retired P50 controller and enroute is taught by a retired ZLA controller.

The bad is while ASU does have a TSS (they got PHX tower's old TSS when they got a new one) the problem is they simulate PHX tower, not academy airspace or any similar type of airspace. I didnt do any pattern traffic in the tower class. They do teach that stuff in the tower lecture and you learn all the terminal parts of the .65 but you dont actually do it in the sim. I didnt feel like I had much of a leg up at OKC compared to the no experience classmates.

Now the tracon class is actually really good and pretty similar to RTF but again, they simulate P50 not academy. But you still learn how to run a final, vector, run approaches to a satellite (only 1 though). They even have a fairly accurate STARS sim. I did feel like I had a major leg up at RTF compared to the no experience people because I already knew how to work that kind of environment.

The enroute class was pretty good but they simulated ZLA sector 18 and 36? I think. LAX departures and LA satellite arrivals but they dont teach any d side. I'm not at a center so I can't say how helpful it is for real enroute, but they also have what is likely a fairly accurate ERAM sim.

Of my graduating class all 6 of us got hired, passed OKC, and 5 have certified because we got terminal 1 is still training cause he got enroute.

What year did you graduate?

 

[Move78]

bUt yOuR FaCiLiTy vOtEs oN ThE ScHeDuLe, So yOu cOuLd dO ThAt iF YoU WaNtEd

Boots and Coffee, probably

You could do that if you wanted

 

[CaptainObvious]

You could do that if you wanted

In theory. A majority of the area was against the way we are doing things next year, yet we still were forced into it

 

[flypilot]

What year did you graduate?

2019

 

[ChuckNovember]

Sarcasm aside yes the 'online' powerpoints of the Dakotas and Minnesota are not the same as embry riddle or the cto at beaver/asu. BUT as every dollar cost of college goes up, diversity goes down. (Huge url at bottom)

Not sure what you mean by this. The ones in UND/Minnesota aren't "online powerpoint" schools. UND is a great school and the MARC used to be every Z went in lieu of OKC back in the day. We still have people in my facility that went there and pretty much all of them are upper 50%.

edit/hot take: If the MN school still uses the MARC curriculum they school go straight to Z's. OKC is a waste of time for them.

 

[32andBelow]

Not sure what you mean by this. The ones in UND/Minnesota aren't "online powerpoint" schools. UND is a great school and the MARC used to be every Z went in lieu of OKC back in the day. We still have people in my facility that went there and pretty much all of them are upper 50%.

edit/hot take: If the MN school still uses the MARC curriculum they school go straight to Z's. OKC is a waste of time for them.

Okc is a waste of time for everyone. They teach you ever single thing again

 

[DhruvK]

edit/hot take: If the MN school still uses the MARC curriculum they school go straight to Z's. OKC is a waste of time for them.

MCTC (which is what MARC evolved into in the CTI era) shut its program down in 2016 because their enrollment cratered after the 2014 BioQ hiring changes went into effect.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Not sure what you mean by this. The ones in UND/Minnesota aren't "online powerpoint" schools. UND is a great school and the MARC used to be every Z went in lieu of OKC back in the day. We still have people in my facility that went there and pretty much all of them are upper 50%.

edit/hot take: If the MN school still uses the MARC curriculum they school go straight to Z's. OKC is a waste of time for them.

Maybe I was thinking of wa I don't know it was a long time ago (2002). Sorry to all I offended.

But yeah they need to tier out cti schools lowering the bar doesn't help anyone.

Tier 1 - similar standards and sims to okc. Actual places with towers. (Seperate tower, rtf, enroute)

Tier 2 - powerpoints and tabletops only. Send graduates to towers with sims, send enroute graduates to academy for sims only.

There is no reason the faa can't put the basics slides online and say you have an entrance exam day 2 and you are required to know this.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Maybe I was thinking of wa I don't know it was a long time ago (2002). Sorry to all I offended.

But yeah they need to tier out cti schools lowering the bar doesn't help anyone.

Tier 1 - similar standards and sims to okc. Actual places with towers. (Seperate tower, rtf, enroute)

Tier 2 - powerpoints and tabletops only. Send graduates to towers with sims, send enroute graduates to academy for sims only.

There is no reason the faa can't put the basics slides online and say you have an entrance exam day 2 and you are required to know this.

This could work but why not just mandate all CTI schools pony up for a simulator and get them on even standing. Saves the FAA money and keeps the OTS track (only thing at academy now aside from enroute) at full capacity not having to share at OKC.

 

[Phillytroll69]

This could work but why not just mandate all CTI schools pony up for a simulator and get them on even standing. Saves the FAA money and keeps the OTS track (only thing at academy now aside from enroute) at full capacity not having to share at OKC.

I'm not sure you could mandate it just layout guidelines of min requirements.
BUT if schools are required to have enroute, rtf, and tower sims it's gonna significantly reduce the amount of people in.

I like the idea of making schools have sims, but if all these towers are supposed to get them anyway just thought might as well use em. I'm not familiar with what the tower pass rates are right now at the academy.

Side note, the faa better speed up and get better at documenting training because this will now make most people bargaining unit employees during their probation period. Think about the academy if instead of just dismissal it was 2 review boards per student

 

[Mike Kilo]

I'm not sure you could mandate it just layout guidelines of min requirements.
BUT if schools are required to have enroute, rtf, and tower sims it's gonna significantly reduce the amount of people in.

I like the idea of making schools have sims, but if all these towers are supposed to get them anyway just thought might as well use em. I'm not familiar with what the tower pass rates are right now at the academy.

Side note, the faa better speed up and get better at documenting training because this will now make most people bargaining unit employees during their probation period. Think about the academy if instead of just dismissal it was 2 review boards per student

A lot of people are BUEs as soon as they arrive at their facility between 1-2 months into probation. Could they force us to teach new people academy shit and not allow them to join the union until passing? Lots of unknowns until they iron shit out.