NCEPT debate thread

[Stinger]

I thought there was an option on the controllers part to elect to go up to 6 months vice 3 from being selected?

Additionally I have a spreadsheet I created that shows since the inception of the new ERR process the average jump of a controller at a 4/5/6 moving up is 5.2x levels out of 734 selections. Therefore it is bypassing normal career progression and all the mid level facilities unless you're from a 4. That's one of the biggest problems with the new ERR process is there's no level cap like with hardships or mutual swaps. This data will be refined and presented to Andrew Lebovidge to argue for change.

"It's a fluid process and has taken some ironing out to get the details into a format that will work for all controllers nationwide. There has been more movement with NCEPT than in the previous 5 years before the NCEPT started. Don't forget that N90 and C90 have always been options.
Sincerely,
Andrew"

That's probably about what he'll say haha
How many have been selected from level 8/9/10s?

 

[corn4ahead]

"It's a fluid process and has taken some ironing out to get the details into a format that will work for all controllers nationwide. There has been more movement with NCEPT than in the previous 5 years before the NCEPT started. Don't forget that N90 and C90 have always been options.
Sincerely,
Andrew"

That's probably about what he'll say haha
How many have been selected from level 8/9/10s?

What does it matter, 8/9/10s are being given to new hires so they are still getting bodies.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I’ve found communication with Robichou to be much better than Lebovidge.

 

[vectorwagon]

I thought there was an option on the controllers part to elect to go up to 6 months vice 3 from being selected?

Additionally I have a spreadsheet I created that shows since the inception of the new ERR process the average jump of a controller at a 4/5/6 moving up is 5.2x levels out of 734 selections. Therefore it is bypassing normal career progression and all the mid level facilities unless you're from a 4. That's one of the biggest problems with the new ERR process is there's no level cap like with hardships or mutual swaps. This data will be refined and presented to Andrew Lebovidge to argue for change.

The old process there was no limit, you could go from a 7 to a 12 then too. Not defending ncept - but just that aspect was no different. I do feel ncept makes it harder for mid levels to move in some ways.

 

[CaptainObvious]

You guys seem to think the lower levels are all just letting people go right and left. I’d be willing to bet that these releases from lower levels are from a fairly short list of facilities that release again and again and again

 

[Djfury05]

You guys seem to think the lower levels are all just letting people go right and left. I’d be willing to bet that these releases from lower levels are from a fairly short list of facilities that release again and again and again

I will look at the data and can give you an absolute answer so you won't be betting on it. Give me a few hours I'm at work.

 

[Djfury05]

The old process there was no limit, you could go from a 7 to a 12 then too. Not defending ncept - but just that aspect was no different. I do feel ncept makes it harder for mid levels to move in some ways.

Doesn't matter what the old process did or didn't do. This is a new process and unless we have data and arguing points Andrew will do what he wants. This new process has greatly benefited 4/5/6 facilities and not much for others. I'm sure all the 10/11/12 facilities would much prefer to take a controller from a 7/8/9 over a 4/5/6 but that discretion is removed from the process now and you get what you get per se.

 

[MJ]

This is a new process and unless we have data and arguing points Andrew will do what he wants.

It's a nice thought, but you're working under the assumption he cares to listen, which I assure you, he does not.

They are already aware of all the information you're tracking.

Spoiler: FY16 NCEPT Analysis

Analysis Balancing the Workforce

A review of the facilities where employees moved from “losing facilities” indicates that the majority of selections- 194 came from lower level facility groups (4-6; 7-9; 10-12) facilities to higher level facilities, movement up in level and complexity, with 84 lateral or moves within the current level bands. There were 19 total movements to a lower band.

Facility Level 4-6

It was expected that the majority of movement would come from facilities at the lower levels (4-6). This is primarily due to the intentional concentration of placement of new hires to these facilities, both with and without experience and the expansion of placement up to 100% of projected CPC target. Controllers selected from these facilities went overwhelmingly to ATC 10-12 facilities (76.4%), followed by level 7-9 facilities (18.9%) with 4.7% remaining within the same band of facilities.

Facility Level 7-9

The overwhelming majority of CPCs moving from level 7-9 facilities were placed at level 10-12 facilities, (86.9%) which is the ideal progression from this level facility. The remaining 11.2% remained within the same band or downgraded (1.8%) to the level 4-6 facilities.

Facility Level 10-12

The majority (79.8%) remained within the same level and which is expected as this band is inclusive of the highest level facilities. There were 17 (20.2%) movement to a lower level facility.

ERR and NCEPT FY2016 Program Report if you want the whole report.

 

[CaptainObvious]

He does not care. Keywords there: This is his, among others, baby. And they will continue on with it regardless of how you or I feel about it. If you question him or anyone on the NEB, they’ll pass blame to the FAA for their poor hiring. And if you ask the FAA about anything regarding transfers, blame gets passed on to NATCA.

It’s a big circle-jerk where you and I, as the employee and member of the lowly forgotten about bullshit-level facility, never really reach climax. They simply do not care.

Bingo

 

[XRadar]

New here, tried to read all the posts to see if it was mentioned, eyes glazed over...Forgive me if this has been mentioned.
It seems here at a level 9 we are screwed by NCEPT. The new hires are going to the lower levels, and thus those facilities have numbers to let people go. So now you can leave your 6 and go to a 12. 12 needs people, they take them. Guess who is below numbers and not getting any new blood? 8-9 facilities! There should be a cut-off for progression. Leave a 6, best you can do is 9, maybe 10. We are stagnant here and nobody is leaving, nobody is coming in either.

 

[MJ]

New here, tried to read all the posts to see if it was mentioned, eyes glazed over...Forgive me if this has been mentioned.
It seems here at a level 9 we are screwed by NCEPT. The new hires are going to the lower levels, and thus those facilities have numbers to let people go. So now you can leave your 6 and go to a 12. 12 needs people, they take them. Guess who is below numbers and not getting any new blood? 8-9 facilities! There should be a cut-off for progression. Leave a 6, best you can do is 9, maybe 10. We are stagnant here and nobody is leaving, nobody is coming in either.

I know a guy who wants to come to SAT and the ATM/DM won’t make it happen.

 

[XRadar]

I know a guy who wants to come to SAT and the ATM/DM won’t make it happen.

That is more than believable!

 

[corn4ahead]

New here, tried to read all the posts to see if it was mentioned, eyes glazed over...Forgive me if this has been mentioned.
It seems here at a level 9 we are screwed by NCEPT. The new hires are going to the lower levels, and thus those facilities have numbers to let people go. So now you can leave your 6 and go to a 12. 12 needs people, they take them. Guess who is below numbers and not getting any new blood? 8-9 facilities! There should be a cut-off for progression. Leave a 6, best you can do is 9, maybe 10. We are stagnant here and nobody is leaving, nobody is coming in either.

Don't worry, I'm sure the SAT ERR list has 50+ names on it. My guess is you will get a previous experience new hire shortly.

 

[Stinger]

New here, tried to read all the posts to see if it was mentioned, eyes glazed over...Forgive me if this has been mentioned.
It seems here at a level 9 we are screwed by NCEPT. The new hires are going to the lower levels, and thus those facilities have numbers to let people go. So now you can leave your 6 and go to a 12. 12 needs people, they take them. Guess who is below numbers and not getting any new blood? 8-9 facilities! There should be a cut-off for progression. Leave a 6, best you can do is 9, maybe 10. We are stagnant here and nobody is leaving, nobody is coming in either.

Plus now you've got people leaving for A80.

 

[CaptainObvious]

This circle jerk of who has it worse is stupid. I wonder if it’s better to be at a level 9 making decent money in a bigger city with more to do and is nicer overall, or to be stuck at a 4-6 making shit money in bumfuck, USA

 

[Dolan]

It has to be the super high cost of living, low level towers who have let 0 people transfer and have gotten 0 people in via ncept right?

 

[CaptainObvious]

It has to be the super high cost of living, low level towers who have let 0 people transfer and have gotten 0 people in via ncept right?

No because according to Natca they can just quit, or shouldn’t have taken the job

 

[Mike Kilo]

This circle jerk of who has it worse is stupid. I wonder if it’s better to be at a level 9 making decent money in a bigger city with more to do and is nicer overall, or to be stuck at a 4-6 making shit money in bumfuck, USA

You say the circle jerk is stupid and then contribute some more lol. I would hazard that 80% of facilities probably have a legitimate complaint about the implementation NCEPT and how it has affected them, someone they know, or their facility etc.

 

[CaptainObvious]

You say the circle jerk is stupid and then contribute some more lol. I would hazard that 80% of facilities probably have a legitimate complaint about the implementation NCEPT and how it has affected them, someone they know, or their facility etc.

I’m just saying. This affects a large number of people. The argument that this is worse for x level or xxx location is stupid. It sucks for everyone aside from well staffed low level tower only and the several hundred people who have been able to get a release and bypass any traditional progression

 

[Dolan]

There was also a ton of controllers who got an instant free ERR on the first panel because their facilities were staffed very well on paper due to how many people were working temp assignments. Anyone have the results of that first NCEPT handy?