NCEPT debate thread

[Dolan]

I understand this sentiment fully. But if I KNOW for a fact that Joe is putting in a BS hardship and I say nothing? Then I'm complicit in his little scheme. If talking to the FACREP didn't get results, then the RVP would be getting calls; cause I'll be damned if someone's going to try to mess with my career while I sit by quietly.

Uh, if you're Joe's FACREP and you know his hardship is bogus you're still going to do everything you can to help him get it approved or you're a shitty FACREP. Hardships aren't transparent in that they're available to everyone, but controllers have willingly shared their documentation with coworkers who need help filing their hardships.

Any FACREP who's helped one of their controllers file hardships is going to know what's in them. Their family life or health will absolutely be your business.

 

[ehmeye]

Uh, if you're Joe's FACREP and you know his hardship is bogus you're still going to do everything you can to help him get it approved or you're a shitty FACREP. Hardships aren't transparent in that they're available to everyone, but controllers have willingly shared their documentation with coworkers who need help filing their hardships.

Any FACREP who's helped one of their controllers file hardships is going to know what's in them. Their family life or health will absolutely be your business.

If you are a FACREP and you are helping a controller scam a hardship then you are doing a disservice to everyone else in your bargaining unit. That's a shitty FACREP. If the FACREP is sharing a member's confidential information with other controllers, then that's a shitty FACREP.

If you are a controller scamming a hardship and you share your scheme with other controllers then you're trusting that they'll sit by idly while you leave and hope that one day their scam will pay off.

 

[Dontbotherme]

Your first purpose, as a union representative, is to protect the integrity of your profession NOT help people scam a system that has a negative impact on other BUEs. If you compromise your professional integrity, you have nothing (trust, respect, etc).

 

[breakaway2000]

To echo @Robertb our job as Facreps is to make sure the contract is followed and employees rights are not infringed on. At the local level, our only job is to determine if a hardship falls into one of the three approvable categories. If it does, it moves up, if it doesn't, the member is educated on the hardship process and the request ends at the local level. It's not our duty (nor should it be) to determine the validity of a request that falls in one of the three approvable categories.

Ex. Employee requests a hardship due to his child having a medical condition that requires more specialized care. This meets 1 of the 3 requirements, I encourage him to get documentation and we'd send it up.
It's not my duty to investigate, find out the hospital he's trying to move for is ranked 30th in the country for his childs disease while their current hospital is ranked 15th. The national office will determine validity.

 

[KnockKnock]

Your first purpose, as a union representative, is to protect the integrity of your profession NOT help people scam a system that has a negative impact on other BUEs. If you compromise your professional integrity, you have nothing (trust, respect, etc).

Off topic, but related: our FacRep is the one that declined his NCEPT offer haha.

Okay, continue beating the horse!

 

[breakaway2000]

Off topic, but related: our FacRep is the one that declined his NCEPT offer haha.

Okay, continue beating the horse!

My god...

 

[Move78]

Off topic, but related: our FacRep is the one that declined his NCEPT offer haha.

Okay, continue beating the horse!

My god...

 

[Palmetto]

Does anyone know what happens if the last panel my facility was category 2 and this panel we are category 1 . Do people with a category two release date have the option to change the date and if so does it go in seniority order?

 

[Stinger]

Does anyone know what happens if the last panel my faculty was category 2 and this panel we are category 1 . Do people with a category two release date have the option to change the date and if so does it go in seniority order?

From the moment your facility reaches Category 1 status, you look at everyone that has a current release and the person that has had a release the longest gets first dibs at getting a sooner release and you just go down the list until someone wants it.

 

[Cardsmall]

From the moment your facility reaches Category 1 status, you look at everyone that has a current release and the person that has had a release the longest gets first dibs at getting a sooner release and you just go down the list until someone wants it.

Could you see a scenario that everyone with a cat 2 could receive a cat 1 date until the cpc/proj numbers actually drop? Doesn't seem like dates effect official numbers. Dunno, this situation is up for debate at my current facility. I feel like what you're saying is the way it'll turn out but we have 4 at my facility that all think they are getting cat 1 releases and going back and forth with the district

 

[Move78]

Could you see a scenario that everyone with a cat 2 could receive a cat 1 date until the cpc/proj numbers actually drop? Doesn't seem like dates effect official numbers. Dunno, this situation is up for debate at my current facility. I feel like what you're saying is the way it'll turn out but we have 4 at my facility that all think they are getting cat 1 releases and going back and forth with the district

It depends how many bodies above CAT1 you are. It's usually just 1 so it goes in order of selection so if the first person up wants it then they're the only one that gets CAT1.

 

[ATCNOMAD]

Thanks for the post MJ.

Regarding slot allocation at 4-9 facilities, allocating to 100% just means that these facilities will be on academy grads, NESTers, and prior experience hire's lists of facility choices until those facilities are 100% staffed? Are academy classes still being offered fairly big lists?

This really sucks for certain towers. Nobody is going to choose them because they won't ever get out.

Sounds like the complete opposite. Those facilities will always get enough people to staff to 100% weather it's NEST NCEPT or new hires. Sounds like it will be extremely easy to leave, but hard to get to if you are trying through NCEPT to get to. Some places seem easier to get to being a wash out then via NCEPT lol

 

[Dolan]

Sounds like the complete opposite. Those facilities will always get enough people to staff to 100% weather it's NEST NCEPT or new hires. Sounds like it will be extremely easy to leave, but hard to get to if you are trying through NCEPT to get to. Some places seem easier to get to being a wash out then via NCEPT lol

No, they won't. High COL or super undesirable areas are almost always going to be people's last choice if they're offered a range of towers in the 4-9 range. FAI, ASE, ACK, etc are never going to be easy to get out of.

 

[ATCNOMAD]

No, they won't. High COL or super undesirable areas are almost always going to be people's last choice if they're offered a range of towers in the 4-9 range. FAI, ASE, ACK, etc are never going to be easy to get out of.

I do have to agree with you on those 3 airports especially. Those are inconvenient locations to work at really regardless of pay. I see what you are saying

 

[Dolan]

They need to compile a list of facilities with ERR's on file for 100% of CPCs. I'm betting there would be over 20. Many of these will be ones that have been the most ill-served by ncept

 

[MxMS39]

No, they won't. High COL or super undesirable areas are almost always going to be people's last choice if they're offered a range of towers in the 4-9 range. FAI, ASE, ACK, etc are never going to be easy to get out of.

I can only speak of ASE, but they have not gotten anyone new in 1.5 years. They have not staffed them to 100% .. projected staffing there is below 100% (well below) and only one trainee left before everyone is fully cpc. They never see people from the nest, no one has ever put an eligible ERR there before under the NCEPT and I'm guessing even if they make it on a hiring list for previous experiance hires or academy grads they will be picked last or if not forced to be picked they wont be at all. So much for places like that who historically were training facilities and had people stay less than 3 years, now they are career killers unless you want to go be stuck at n90. It's not easy living there.

 

[Dolan]

I can only speak of ASE, but they have not gotten anyone new in 1.5 years. They have not staffed them to 100% .. projected staffing there is below 100% (well below) and only one trainee left before everyone is fully cpc. They never see people from the nest, no one has ever put an eligible ERR there before under the NCEPT and I'm guessing even if they make it on a hiring list for previous experiance hires or academy grads they will be picked last or if not forced to be picked they wont be at all. So much for places like that who historically were training facilities and had people stay less than 3 years, now they are career killers unless you want to go be stuck at n90. It's not easy living there.

Exactly. That same 2 year release that drove people so crazy with the old system would be a godsend to someone at ASE. The people who pushed NCEPT through just do not understand or care about what it's like at some of these high COL places yet they're insistent that these places be in NATCA and pay dues.

Someone at ASE would have no business dictating the release policy at somewhere well staffed like where every single RVP works, so why should these RVPs and NATCA higher ups come in and destroy the only system that worked for controllers at these towers?

 

[MJ]

It’s pretty shameful how NATCA is handling this. Over a week has gone by and we still don’t have a national email explaining the changes, the rationale behind them, and how we’re moving forward. The only info we’re getting is posts on here relaying info from things they’ve heard/seem behind the scenes.

Because they don't know. If you haven't noticed yet, this garbage is made up as they go.

 

[Homsar]

Because they don't know. If you haven't noticed yet, this garbage is made up as they go.

Of course, but someone’s still making the decisions; don’t leave us in the dark when it’s done.

 

[Super Salt]

I’m not replying to the messages here in hopes of getting feathers ruffled, I’m simply stating what I have been told regarding the NCEPT process.

There are apparently too many CPC-IT’s in training, at too many facilities, and the FAA is wanting to reevaluate the transfer process. Hence the possibility of NCEPT panels now being stretched out to every 6 months.