New FAA Administration

FightingIrish2012

Trusted Contributor
Messages
273
So if we are here to, “...move the most airplanes through the sky as possible...” doesn’t an air carrier landing EWR count as ONE airplane and a GA landing TEB count as ONE airplane? There shouldn’t be priority given to air carriers over GAs, but that’s exactly what a former air carrier executive would try to do.
Do you want to miss your international connection though EWR or JFK so some dick bag who inherited his money csn show his trophy wife he has big balls by landing his SR22 in Newark?
 

Robertb

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FAA
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454
Facility
A80 Atlanta Tracon
Do you want to miss your international connection though EWR or JFK so some dick bag who inherited his money csn show his trophy wife he has big balls by landing his SR22 in Newark?
That aircraft (SR22) has as much right to ATC services as people making connections. This whole AC vs GA is going to carry over to consolidations and closures of low to mid level facilities. You couple that with anti labor appointments and Executive Orders and we are in for a huge struggle down the road.
 

32andBelow

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Messages
465
That aircraft (SR22) has as much right to ATC services as people making connections. This whole AC vs GA is going to carry over to consolidations and closures of low to mid level facilities. You couple that with anti labor appointments and Executive Orders and we are in for a huge struggle down the road.
There’s a difference between anti GA and don’t cause a national delay to thousands of people because the citrus club is out
 

thesoonerkid

Trusted Contributor
Messages
67
We are here for “first come, first served.” So an individual aircraft is just that. It doesn’t matter if there is one person on board or 1,000 as we don’t choose services based on number of passengers. Under your same logic, we should give the heavy a shorter base and extend an RJ out, to accommodate the shorter base for the heavy, because we don’t want 300 people to be delayed for the 50 on the RJ.
Yeah if only that were the case. Where I worked we get a lot of GA traffic and I see air carriers lined up 10+ deep waiting for 15+ minutes and then comes along mr GA jet and they often times wait less than 5 minutes (coming off a different runway) so no it’s not always first come first serve.

First come first serve makes little sense. Safety comes first then efficiency. Does joe blow in his 172 have a right to land where he wants? Absolutely but I’m not going to bend over backwards to make him #1 when it means I’m going to have to go to 170, 30 miles out for the next 45 minutes
 

CaptainObvious

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660
First come first serve makes little sense. Safety comes first then efficiency. Does joe blow in his 172 have a right to land where he wants? Absolutely but I’m not going to bend over backwards to make him #1 when it means I’m going to have to go to 170, 30 miles out for the next 45 minutes
I think the point Robert is trying to make is you shouldn’t have him burning holes in the sky so you can shove every AC within 200 miles ahead of him.
 

PushingTin

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Messages
367
That aircraft (SR22) has as much right to ATC services as people making connections. This whole AC vs GA is going to carry over to consolidations and closures of low to mid level facilities. You couple that with anti labor appointments and Executive Orders and we are in for a huge struggle down the road.
I think we are in for something like a White Book lite. We have legal ability to binding arbitration so I think its highly unlikely it will ever be as bad as the imposed work rules. I think when Trump is reelected union busting things like attempts at eliminating official time and other such executive orders are more likely to keep coming. Silver lining is that Woodley & Mcgilvary are on the case and we will all get $500 in 11 years to be made whole for the shutdown. Plus I have a hoard of those amazing super effective "stop the shutdown!" pamphlets that I'm saving until they're super vintage, to sell when American Pickers comes through
 

Hitchcock

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FAA
Messages
291
Facility
ZDV Denver Center
That aircraft (SR22) has as much right to ATC services as people making connections. This whole AC vs GA is going to carry over to consolidations and closures of low to mid level facilities. You couple that with anti labor appointments and Executive Orders and we are in for a huge struggle down the road.
I'm not saying that GA is always an afterthought but there's a reason the agency is paying us off of air carrier traffic counts. First come first serve when there's an operational advantage.
 

Uscolt45

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Messages
484
I don’t know about you, but I make the same whether I talk to 100 AC or 100 GA. 🤷‍♂️
While true in your current situation , the CI program weighs AC far heavier than GA. If you worked all GA your pay would fall due to the CI loss (obviously depending on your traffic mix etc.)
 

32andBelow

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465
And what does first come first serve even mean. The airline posts their intention to fly that flight up to 330 days in advance
 

CaptainObvious

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Messages
660
And what does first come first serve even mean. The airline posts their intention to fly that flight up to 330 days in advance
I don’t check Expedia or FlightAware before taking the sector. If a bizjet or other GA is showing first to the airport I’m not delaying them for the AC pops up. He’s getting the speed and vectors for sequence, not the GA
 

rhombus

Trusted Contributor
Messages
68
While true in your current situation , the CI program weighs AC far heavier than GA. If you worked all GA your pay would fall due to the CI loss (obviously depending on your traffic mix etc.)
This isn't remotely true. IFR traffic is weighted 1.5x while VFR traffic is weighted 1.0x. It doesn't matter if it's an IFR A350 or an IFR C150, you get a 1.5 count for it in the terminal environment.

THE TCI actually rewards you for having a mix of traffic. If you have two airports with similar runway configurations, Airport A doing 300,000 IFR AC ops/year and Airport B doing 150,000 IFR AC ops/year and 150,000 IFR GA/AT ops/year, Airport B would end up with a higher weighted traffic count and possibly a higher level facility. A healthy mix of traffic benefits all of us.
 

Phillyman2633

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Messages
149
Do you want to miss your international connection though EWR or JFK so some dick bag who inherited his money csn show his trophy wife he has big balls by landing his SR22 in Newark?
Can confirm that this does not happen. ZNY's loose understanding of weather movement is usually the responsible party for missed connections. Having to pay for landing slots/landing fees alleviates most GA traffic from the big boy airports. The free market solves all!


First come first serve makes little sense. Safety comes first then efficiency. Does joe blow in his 172 have a right to land where he wants? Absolutely but I’m not going to bend over backwards to make him #1 when it means I’m going to have to go to 170, 30 miles out for the next 45 minutes
I got an AT Basics class and a TSEW vectoring basics class with your name on it my guy.
 

Foogy

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Messages
581
I'm fairly sure it is based off of efficiency in the system. We can fit a lot more heavy/large aircraft in a sequence without a small being mixed in. That's just facts of the rules without bias.
 

ATCNOMAD

Trusted Contributor
Messages
133
I think we are in for something like a White Book lite. We have legal ability to binding arbitration so I think its highly unlikely it will ever be as bad as the imposed work rules. I think when Trump is reelected union busting things like attempts at eliminating official time and other such executive orders are more likely to keep coming. Silver lining is that Woodley & Mcgilvary are on the case and we will all get $500 in 11 years to be made whole for the shutdown. Plus I have a hoard of those amazing super effective "stop the shutdown!" pamphlets that I'm saving until they're super vintage, to sell when American Pickers comes through
Hopefully he is NOT reelected. *Fingers crossed & registered to vote*
 

adub

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I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
111
Hopefully he is NOT reelected. *Fingers crossed & registered to vote*
Given the choices the Democratic Party seems to be putting up... it's setting up to be a no brainer election ignoring all candidates any 3rd party puts up.
 

Phillyman2633

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Messages
149
I'm fairly sure it is based off of efficiency in the system. We can fit a lot more heavy/large aircraft in a sequence without a small being mixed in. That's just facts of the rules without bias.
True, but I think we're creating an issue where there currently isn't one. Last night from 4-midnight I think I saw 5 GA aircraft at Kennedy, one of them being a medevac LJ, the others being a Citation, F900, B350, and a Hawker maybe. One of the GA guys last night told me he could take an intersection departure and waive the wake and I told him he'd have to wait in line with everyone else. I think being #25 for departure is enough of a deterrent that you dont come to JFK unless absolutely necessary.

In the vast majority of cases, the GA airports are closer to the city center and have cheaper FBO prices than the major airports, so I would assume that in most cases the only reason you'd want to fly into a core 30 is if you're rich enough to charter a flight to the main airport to catch a DAL flight to Europe but not rich enough to charter directly to Europe. I dont think there's a swarm rich people flying around the NAS in Skyhawks looking to land at your local Core 30 during the push and fuck your shit up.
 

Robertb

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FAA
Messages
454
Facility
A80 Atlanta Tracon
I'm fairly sure it is based off of efficiency in the system. We can fit a lot more heavy/large aircraft in a sequence without a small being mixed in. That's just facts of the rules without bias.
That or I find a D to put a GLF3 behind or an E to put a LJ45 behind so there is no wake turbulence separation, but good final controllers pair up traffic now to reduce in trail. The point is that we are here for the big guys and the small guys. With an ex Delta executive in charge, you’re going to potentially see GA take the hit and delays to accommodate ACs in the NAS and to be named in a safety related retaliatory whistleblower case doesn’t bode well for BUEs.
 
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