FAA Reauth is Passed

[chance8846]

I am going to self immolate in protest of N90 being moved

Please don’t

 

[SquawkHijack]

That makes me so frustrated since we are trending to a level 8, but only can staff 8 controllers with our target number.. We have been short my entire career. Zero spot leave. OT weekly for years. How some places were “fat staffed” and get even more numbers seems insane to me… But hopefully everyone ends up well staffed that’s all I can hope for.

Yep that’s all we can hope for at this point man.

I tried to tell all these dumb fucks from the moment it was ever presented that the CRWG is not what our workforce needs at all at this time.

Unfortunately, we will probably never see an ERR movement in our career now…

They may or may not stop transfers. But that was a possibility, even without the new numbers. People hate NCEPT, but it's always been the compromise bandaid to keep transfers happening in the middle of declining cpc numbers. At some point though, something is going to give.

The agency can’t just stop NCEPT unless NATCA were to mutually agree to it. NCEPT is not only collaborative but also well documented and has a lot of visibility. If the agency were to just blatantly say “we’re halting all NCEPT movements until further notice” that would be an open/shut case for a breach of arbitration agreement.

 

[32andBelow]

The agency can’t just stop NCEPT unless NATCA were to mutually agree to it. NCEPT is not only collaborative but also well documented and has a lot of visibility. If the agency were to just blatantly say “we’re halting all NCEPT movements until further notice” that would be an open/shut case for a breach of arbitration agreement.

They will just enter the fake news CRWG numbers and then no one will qualify to transfer

 

[CaptainObvious]

The agency can’t just stop NCEPT unless NATCA were to mutually agree to it. NCEPT is not only collaborative but also well documented and has a lot of visibility. If the agency were to just blatantly say “we’re halting all NCEPT movements until further notice” that would be an open/shut case for a breach of arbitration agreement.

No one will qualify so they won’t have to stop it

 

[ATC Zero]

They will just enter the fake news CRWG numbers and then no one will qualify to transfer

Agree I think that’s what will happen make everyone suffer except the level 4’s who can certify quickly and move up. Funny all the big facilities hating on level 4,5,6 transferring to 10-12’s. Steady stream of newly certified level 4 controllers coming y’all way. Meanwhile 5-9’s gonna be stuck indefinitely. Look at the data and see how many 4’s release it’s constant.

 

[echster]

Think of it what you want but here's my (free) two cents:

The Reauthorization bill requires the FAA to use the CRWG numbers until the NATRB verifies which staffing numbers are legit, the FAA's Bean Counter number, the MITRE/FAA/NATCA CRWG numbers, or their own/combination staffing numbers. But I believe NATCA is going to turn-around and use any higher staffing number to show the practical impossibility of properly staffing facilities and make consolidation palatable.... even to the detriment of its members.

Anyone actually read the NiW pamphlet and see the ask for more F&E money to replace/consolidate facilities? I don't have any doubt that NATCA's current leadership is setting us up for a future where we're fine taking money from 12-15k controllers working FAA ATC-8 and above and several thousand more controllers working FCT making whatever the non-negotiable DOL contract rate is. In the end, because of how dues are assessed, the higher the base pay of members the more dues income is generated for NATCA.

Anyways.... call me cynical or worse. But there are roughly 5 BILLION dollars allocated solely to new and remodeled ATC facilities yet to be appropriated (let alone spent).... and we're asking for even more for replacement and consolidation.

 

[ChuckNovember]

RIP if the numbers go in place before the panel next month 😆

^center controllers looking at the May PPT

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

Agree I think that’s what will happen make everyone suffer except the level 4’s who can certify quickly and move up. Funny all the big facilities hating on level 4,5,6 transferring to 10-12’s. Steady stream of newly certified level 4 controllers coming y’all way. Meanwhile 5-9’s gonna be stuck indefinitely. Look at the data and see how many 4’s release it’s constant.

I am not trying to defend anything other than the following: It makes sense that Level 4-6s constantly release. Understanding the math and reasoning behind it is important. We'll also operate in the perfect NCEPT fantasy-world where there are no deviations or hardships and only look at the staffing numbers.

They're a catch-all for both training failures and AGs, time to certification is/should be faster than higher level facilities, and staffing numbers are typically lower to the point where 1 person (or 2) makes or breaks NCEPT release numbers. When staffing operates as a 1-in-1-out model, target staffing number is 10-20, and 5+ people are always competing to get to their next facility, it makes sense that you'd see almost all low level facilities release someone Cat 1 on every NCEPT panel.

I know the facilities page on here isn't 100% current, but it is pretty close so I will use it as a rough reference. Roughly 140 facilities are levels 4-6 (roughly 20/60/60 for 4/5/6). If we were to assume they all generally operate under a 1-in-1-out model, they have Cat 1 releases, and they release on 3 out of the 4 "scheduled" panels every year (rolling 75%), then every NCEPT panel would see a minimum of 105 selections from level 4-6 facilities alone.

We can nit-pick all the other details under the sun about jumping from a level 4 to a level 12, cat 2 releases vs cat 1, OS deviations, hardships, country clubs, upcoming CRWG numbers, etc. But purely from a numbers & logic perspective we should see MORE level 4-6 releases every NCEPT than we currently do.

 

[Raise when?]

I can’t wait for Whitaker to arbitrarily downgrade all ATC facilities 4 levels so he can pay us less

 

[Bandit117]

Yep that’s all we can hope for at this point man.

I tried to tell all these dumb fucks from the moment it was ever presented that the CRWG is not what our workforce needs at all at this time.

Unfortunately, we will probably never see an ERR movement in our career now…


The agency can’t just stop NCEPT unless NATCA were to mutually agree to it. NCEPT is not only collaborative but also well documented and has a lot of visibility. If the agency were to just blatantly say “we’re halting all NCEPT movements until further notice” that would be an open/shut case for a breach of arbitration agreement.

It wouldn’t be so open and shut. They wouldn’t be withdrawing from the agreement. They would still have panels. There would be next to no movement because, due to higher staffing numbers, no one would be at the 85% staffing target to release.

It would go like this :

>motion to open, ncept Panel convenes
>valid ERRS are selected.
>no one can release, bc no one is at numbers.
> special programs - MIA, ZJX, A80 etc selections are made. Maybe a handful. End round 1.
>swaps examined.
>no one is at 85% targets, ergo no valid swaps.
>motion to adjourn.

The faa has fulfilled their part of the MOU. No breach. I don’t believe there’s anything that says they can’t change staffing targets. Only that a facility has to be at 85% of theirs to be eligible to release.

 

[MJ]

I know the facilities page on here isn't 100% current

 

[sturntofinal2020]

With the passing of the reauthorization act, will any of this benefit contract controllers?

 

[BDUB]

With the passing of the reauthorization act, will any of this benefit contract controllers?

Pull up the bill and search contract and read it lots of interesting things thrown around in the bill too much to specify honestly…

 

[GulfCharlie]

Think of it what you want but here's my (free) two cents:

The Reauthorization bill requires the FAA to use the CRWG numbers until the NATRB verifies which staffing numbers are legit, the FAA's Bean Counter number, the MITRE/FAA/NATCA CRWG numbers, or their own/combination staffing numbers. But I believe NATCA is going to turn-around and use any higher staffing number to show the practical impossibility of properly staffing facilities and make consolidation palatable.... even to the detriment of its members.

Anyone actually read the NiW pamphlet and see the ask for more F&E money to replace/consolidate facilities? I don't have any doubt that NATCA's current leadership is setting us up for a future where we're fine taking money from 12-15k controllers working FAA ATC-8 and above and several thousand more controllers working FCT making whatever the non-negotiable DOL contract rate is. In the end, because of how dues are assessed, the higher the base pay of members the more dues income is generated for NATCA.

Anyways.... call me cynical or worse. But there are roughly 5 BILLION dollars allocated solely to new and remodeled ATC facilities yet to be appropriated (let alone spent).... and we're asking for even more for replacement and consolidation.

Preach…

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Think of it what you want but here's my (free) two cents:

The Reauthorization bill requires the FAA to use the CRWG numbers until the NATRB verifies which staffing numbers are legit, the FAA's Bean Counter number, the MITRE/FAA/NATCA CRWG numbers, or their own/combination staffing numbers. But I believe NATCA is going to turn-around and use any higher staffing number to show the practical impossibility of properly staffing facilities and make consolidation palatable.... even to the detriment of its members.

Anyone actually read the NiW pamphlet and see the ask for more F&E money to replace/consolidate facilities? I don't have any doubt that NATCA's current leadership is setting us up for a future where we're fine taking money from 12-15k controllers working FAA ATC-8 and above and several thousand more controllers working FCT making whatever the non-negotiable DOL contract rate is. In the end, because of how dues are assessed, the higher the base pay of members the more dues income is generated for NATCA.

Anyways.... call me cynical or worse. But there are roughly 5 BILLION dollars allocated solely to new and remodeled ATC facilities yet to be appropriated (let alone spent).... and we're asking for even more for replacement and consolidation.

I don’t think the 5 billion is just for F&E…

 

[SquawkHijack]

RIP if the numbers go in place before the panel next month 😆

Our target numbers will go up, but the national average will also go down. I wouldn’t worry too much about CRWG for now, the whole 85% goalpost will have to be moved.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Our target numbers will go up, but the national average will also go down. I wouldn’t worry too much about CRWG for now, the whole 85% goalpost will have to be moved.

That won’t move it. That’s the plan.

 

[Nothanks]

That won’t move it. That’s the plan.

Don’t listen to this guy, he’s just saying things because he’s angry. Nothing is founded in facts

 

[32andBelow]

Don’t listen to this guy, he’s just saying things because he’s angry. Nothing is founded in facts

When have they ever done anything to benefit us?

 

[Nothanks]

When have they ever done anything to benefit us?

The faa ? Never.